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From what I can see, property taxes in the Charleston area are pretty much the same as they are in the Baltimore/Washington suburbs. Of course I could be wrong because few realtors state the property taxes on a listing, and if they do they are almost always wrong.
If Mount Pleasant had been a small town of 50k-70k since the 18th century, that'd be one thing. But it wasn't. Nearly everybody living there today is a transplant, or second-generation transplant to Mount Pleasant. The people living there right now dramatically changed the character of the place by moving in during the 1970's, 80's, and 90s. As such it seems ... odd? hypocritical? for any of them to take an anti-growth tack.
Regardless of whether you agree with my argument or not, check this out. It is something I saw the other day. Pull up the map, and move down to Mount Pleasant, and zoom in as far as possible. The place has changed radically since 1980.
That the transplants outnumber the natives is no longer debatable. And there is certainly a measure of the idea that "anyone who got here after me needs to leave".
I think it maybe be time to move further out. Either North or West.
EDIT TO ADD: Using le roi's link, it amazing how fast MtP grew after the Ravenel.
If Mount Pleasant had been a small town of 50k-70k since the 18th century, that'd be one thing. But it wasn't. Nearly everybody living there today is a transplant, or second-generation transplant to Mount Pleasant. The people living there right now dramatically changed the character of the place by moving in during the 1970's, 80's, and 90s. As such it seems ... odd? hypocritical? for any of them to take an anti-growth tack.
Regardless of whether you agree with my argument or not, check this out. It is something I saw the other day. Pull up the map, and move down to Mount Pleasant, and zoom in as far as possible. The place has changed radically since 1980.
But this isnt unique though. For instance this pretty much applies to the vast majority of Florida. As recent as 1940 census South Carolina was bigger than Florida, and now...
Arizona didnt pass South Carolina until the 1990 census and now look. Maricopa County alone is only 800K behind us.
And from a SC stanpoint, look at Bluffton, Greer, Powdersville, Fort Mill, etc, cities have seemed to have pop out of nowhere. Berkeley County didnt even have 40,000 people 50 years ago and didnt eclipse 100,000 until 1982. Now theyre shooting over 200,000. So plenty of outside growth. Mount Pleasant was always going to grow, question was just how?
So cant we say changing character is just a way the country has gone? Is it necessarily such a bad thing? Even places going the opposite direction are feeling it. I doubt too many in Detroit, Syracuse, or Cleveland are cheering the fact that people are fleeing.
The issue is having the proper tools in place to keep up with all this growth. A big problem for Charleston for example is too much politics between us: 526 for example. Lets compromise so we can have a solution rather than later.
Ill personally say that I dont feel Mount Pleasant, or the Charleston area in general, is too crowded. I think the road designs, policies, culture, and a lot of nimbyism have caused some odd feels, but overall I feel Charleston and SC is fine.
We're just not used to this. Rush hour, crowds that are not for the beach, dense developments, mass influx of transplants, all feels new-ish for SC.
Heck our tallest building is only 350 feet tall and has been that way since the 80s, and our largest region is 1.4 million, but the 3 core cities in that region are 30 minutes apart. No professional sports, no large towers filled with Fortune 500's, no gateway airport, any freeway over 6 lanes feels like too much, and what is mass/rapid transit?
We just have to get used to it imo. I'm personally glad so much is being invested into SC. I do agree with need smart planning, but I think the state is heading in a better direction than we could be, especially for a state our size.
Question for all the northern transplants. I don't ever hear of anyone moving to the northeast in any big numbers from anywhere other than maybe foreign countries. I often hear about how affordable SC is compared to housing up north, but whose' buying the housing up north that's enabling northerners to move down here? If Mt P is gaining thousands of new residents, wouldn't there be thousands of residents leaving MA, NY, NJ, CT, etc? Do cities and towns seem to be draining? If so are home prices decreasing up there as a result?
It just seems like this one way street can't continue forever.
Ziggy - To answer your question. We're from the North - lived in one of those what JohnGolf calls "Artsy fartsy towns with a walkable/bikeable downtown". One of those work/live/play places that I think developed really nicely and attractively, in a place where "growth" is looked at apprehensively.
The urban core thrives - everybody is downtown on the weekends - locals and visitors alike - and after work grabbing a bite to eat, going to the independent bookstores, the farmer's market, walking to the movie theatre or live theatre or the waterfront. It's dense and urban and multi-use and surrounded by gorgeous coastal scenery - apartments, rental homes, single family homes, shops, restaurants, offices, library, theatre, waterfront all co-exist peacefully and attractively.
Outside of the core downtown area there are 4 strip malls that house CVS, grocery stores, Marshalls, dry cleaner, sporting goods store, etc. but the strip malls are very small and scattered throughout town, not one lined up after the other. And there is a "Village" type area walkable from the core downtown, sort of like Freshfields with shops, restaurants, offices, etc. that holds different events - the farmers market is held in it's parking lot every weekend, the bookstore has book signings and readings, etc.
There's also an industrial park that houses many businesses and is a great source of revenue for the town, and great source of jobs for the people who live in town and want to work where they live. There's a lot to be said for that lifestyle. My last 2 jobs I had I walked a block to work, could walk out the door of our office and walk to lunch or the library or a park and sit and eat or walk to my doctor/dentist. Once home after work my husband and I could walk downtown and get a bite to eat, browse the shops, or just sit and people watch. Yes, we had to drive to things like the grocery store, the hospital, hardware store - but they were 5 minutes away. That's the beauty of density.
The town was slated by City Council for that lovely non-descript "urban renewal" - tear all the existing buildings down, pave over the cobblestones, and erect faceless buildings in the 70s.
Luckily the mayor and others stepped in and planned instead an 8-10 year revitalization that made it what it is today. It's a highly coveted place to live, especially since there is no more land to build on, and it's 30 min from Boston.
Who's buying? People who want the work/live/play in your town lifestyle. People who want public transit to the city. People from New York who want second homes. People who live in Boston who want second homes. People who now live in the suburbs of Boston and want that "walkable, thriving downtown". Downtown is as much a gathering spot as anything - people flock there on the weekends - get an ice cream and hang out on the benches in town. Walk to the pubs at night for a cold one or walk to the waterfront for a free concert or to sit on the boardwalk and watch the boats go by (ala Shem Creek).
The people that bought our house are 40ish Yuppies who work and live in Boston. They bought our house as their "weekend" house. They have since decided they like the town so much they want to live there permanently, so they kept our place and are renting it, and bought a bigger house to live in.
When the commuter rail came in, the town (city) exploded. Suddenly it was feasible to commute pretty painlessly to Boston and not have to drive, or to take the train in to Boston for the weekend or just to see a show. The commuter rail works - and the "city" (smallest city in MA) is only population 17K so I don't think MP is too small for a commuter rail. And Newburyport being of same vintage as Charleston had the same concerns about how to incorporate it and did a great job. Plenty of people use it - either to commute to work, or to go into Boston for an event if they want to not have to drive or want a nice dinner with a bottle of wine and not want to drive.
Real estate prices soared once the commuter rail was in, and even in the downturn, never took a very big hit. Prices continue to climb with no end in sight. Seems to be plenty of $$ around to buy up the houses of the people moving South. And frankly, some people are holding onto their homes there, buying down here, and going back to their homes in the North during the summers.
Density doesn't have to be skyscrapers or ugly. And growth doesn't have to be just tons more strip malls and never-ending sprawl. It's on an extremely small scale, with no housing, but I think Freshfields Village is adorable and "dense". Costs more than a strip mall I am sure to build, but it's a whole lot more attractive. And Towne Centre is attractively done.
There will always be friction, I think, with growth. Right now our old town (Newburyport) is going through a battle about building a much-needed parking garage. And a battle to build a hotel on the waterfront has been going on for years and years.
As many of you know I am a fan of DI and I think a big part of it's appeal - for those of us who like it - is that even though it's "suburbia" in a way, it was very well planned with walkable neighborhoods, lots of parks, walkable/bikable trails that interconnect all the neighborhoods to each other, apartment buildings, condos, office buildings, entertainment venues, restaurants, shops, schools, library, fire station, churches, single family homes with decent back yards, and a core "downtown" area that is pretty dense - for DI. I don't think many people would dispute that it was attractively developed as is the constant growth on the island - more apartment buildings, more condos (both very large complexes) another entertainment venue, another office park, an assisted living facility....
We're new here - what form of Govt. is MP? Who makes the ultimate planning decisions as to what the town (?city) will look like as it evolves, and how it will grow? Is there a master plan?
Last edited by macalan; 03-25-2016 at 06:04 AM..
Reason: fix typos
Question for all the northern transplants. I don't ever hear of anyone moving to the northeast in any big numbers from anywhere other than maybe foreign countries. I often hear about how affordable SC is compared to housing up north, but whose' buying the housing up north that's enabling northerners to move down here? If Mt P is gaining thousands of new residents, wouldn't there be thousands of residents leaving MA, NY, NJ, CT, etc? Do cities and towns seem to be draining? If so are home prices decreasing up there as a result?
It just seems like this one way street can't continue forever.
i'm not from the north, but the answer can be seen in the stats -- the urban northeast is technically growing in population, but much slower than the rest of the country, probably due to people leaving.
California is illustrative as a trend. Within the state, the least desirable areas are growing fastest. The most desirable areas are growing the slowest.
This seems illogical until you consider that the wealthy coastal areas have crazy levels of NIMBYism -- they are actually trying to shut people out.
Question for all the northern transplants. I don't ever hear of anyone moving to the northeast in any big numbers from anywhere other than maybe foreign countries. I often hear about how affordable SC is compared to housing up north, but whose' buying the housing up north that's enabling northerners to move down here? If Mt P is gaining thousands of new residents, wouldn't there be thousands of residents leaving MA, NY, NJ, CT, etc? Do cities and towns seem to be draining? If so are home prices decreasing up there as a result?
It just seems like this one way street can't continue forever.
In recent years NYC would have had a negative net migration if not for foreign migration.
But this isnt unique though. For instance this pretty much applies to the vast majority of Florida. As recent as 1940 census South Carolina was bigger than Florida, and now...
Arizona didnt pass South Carolina until the 1990 census and now look. Maricopa County alone is only 800K behind us.
And from a SC stanpoint, look at Bluffton, Greer, Powdersville, Fort Mill, etc, cities have seemed to have pop out of nowhere. Berkeley County didnt even have 40,000 people 50 years ago and didnt eclipse 100,000 until 1982. Now theyre shooting over 200,000. So plenty of outside growth.
Well, Mt. P has had about a 10x growth in population since 1970. You can't say that about Florida as a whole, which during that time period has grown 3x, or Berkeley County which has grown 4x.
idk about Greer, Powdersville, etc., but Bluffton is certainly comparable to some extent. It has grown 25x since 1970.
Quote:
Mount Pleasant was always going to grow, question was just how?
And the answer to that question seems to be "NIMBY carpetbaggers."
Quote:
So cant we say changing character is just a way the country has gone?
Yes but some parts of the country are depopulating, and many others are stagnating in terms of population. And those areas that are growing aren't necessarily seeing an influx of wealthy people, some of them are seeing immigrants (legal or illegal). As such I don't think rolling all of this into one big category is meaningful.
Last edited by le roi; 03-25-2016 at 06:29 AM..
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