The Confederate flag (Charleston, Union, North: to buy, vs, beaches)

[carolinajack]

Originally Posted by gaflsc

Change we can believe it!

yep thats the only change i want, oblami can keep his though

[pvjd]

Originally Posted by carolinajack

where did i say it ws hateful? I said it is a symbol that can and is offensive to other people just like the confederate flag is to some. So dont know where you got that from

You said it was oppressive and a symbol of hate, and something or the other about family values. Which is fine, just can't say that I agree with you.

[carolinajack]

show me please then i can retract it but i dont think i said hate-but if you have the qoute i will retract the hate part

[pvjd]

I am not trying to cause any conflict, honestly. It is on page 7. I am sorry if I misunderstood it, but that is what I got out of it. Like I said, if you mean it that way than that is fine, it is just different than what I think. I will not tell what to post, or how to do it.

[OleTomCat]

Originally Posted by carolinajack

no not saying you are arguing at all. I hear you but it is clearly matters of opinion. If you want to erase centuries of oppression-taking away someones symbols of heritage will not do the trick-it only inflames and not just the hate groups but others who might sympathize with you. There are many symbols of oppression, one can say the American flag was one before the battle of northern aggression. The flag was flown during slavery of africans in the North as well as the South. I am not arguing that it is a tool of oppression any more than the Confederate flag is--im saying relativism and revision of history to suit only one side is hypocritical.

you deal with overt or covert racism by dealing with real issues that make for such conditions. the inner heart of man. we deal with it by dealing with the sin of hate, the sin of greed and the sin of racial division NOT but reverting to childs play of arguing over a flag. wresting the flag from those who use it for hate will not change the history and significance of the Civil War or the symbols that come from it. we still have monuments, we still have battle fields, we still have the history and the museums. There are symbols like the rainbow flag for the homosexual movement that cities around the country(including the one i am currently in) use taxpayers money to put up--to me it is offensive, and a symbol of hate and trying to oppress religious liberty and traditional family values--but forcing them to take it down will not stop what the people think and do in their hearts or on the streets, it will only embolden them.

no we must fight the real causes of racism and oppression and not just from one side. Investing funds in hospitals comes from all taxpayers, not just those who use inner city hospitals--it comes from the pockets of men and women you might call racists and hatemongers. we can say it is tyrannical and oppressive to pay ANY salaries of state run(public) schools--esp since i wouldnt send my children to one but still are forced to pay for it and the Unions get to decide what is qualified, good teachers and we cant even ask for results because there are people who think testing and accountability is evil.

so its a two way street, one cant have it all one way and ignore the will of the people. and the will of the people for now want the flag over our grand state--and the tyranny of the minority should not trample on the sovereignty of the people.

Ok, I found the quote that they are talking about....

It does say hate, but I know alot of militant gays that hate the religous right...

Homosexuals have all the rights that anyone else has....

[carolinajack]

ahh thanks Ole Tom Cat

I needed to see the qoute to see what I wrote and in what context. No retractions there, I was talking about the gay rights organizations in the city i am currently in, a northeastern liberal US city where the gay activists are very oppressing, violent, hateful and so yes in that context the flag of the gay community is very hateful. It is offensive to me as the rebel flag is to some, and it is hateful to me in the context i shared, as the rebel flag may be for some.

thanks for the qoute

[OleTomCat]

Not a problem, just one of the many services I provide.....

[pvjd]

Like I said, you are certainly entitled to your thoughts and I will be happy to go fishing with any time so long as we have plenty of doughnuts, and no flag discussions. Just fish, water, and food.

[sumter native]

Originally Posted by PawleysDude

I'm a native. Lived within the Carolinas most of my life. The Confederate flag is a part of our history. To deny the flag's role in SC would be revisionist history in its worst form, attempting to ignore both the good and the bad this flag represented.

At the same time, it's undeniable that this flag will aways be a symbol of suffering and oppression to a large portion of our state's population. IMO, it's time this flag departed from state grounds that are supposed to be welcoming of all state citizens, and moved to museums.

I'll also confess that I am bothered by the numerous times I drive through small SC towns, only to see Confederate flags flying, most often associated with mobile homes and junk-filled yards, with no US flag in sight. Regardless of what we like to pretend when in polite conversation, racism remains a strong force in our state, particularly in areas offering little in the way of opportunity. In these areas, "heritage" is just another word for hatred, and the Confederate flag is its most visible symbol.

SO wityh that in mind the Battery in Charleston should be torn down and pictures put in museums.the Confederate Monuments should be photographed and put in museums, All the monuments put up and maintained by the D.O.C. should be knocked down, Any and all roads named after Confedrate Generals should be renamed or torn out and redone?
The cannon hits on the state house need to be patched and covered so as not visible?
The many many battle fields should be concreted over?
How about all the grave markers the S.C.V places on the graves of the Confederate dead should be removed? and the ranks and units they served in stricken from their grave stones?
My point is the flag is just a starting point.Whats next?
The arguement that the flag reminds people of slavery is bs from the start, if the blacks didnt want to be reminded about slavery then why in the heck did they builds a monument on the state house grounds that depicts a slave being beaten with a whip?
I absolutly refuse to forget the sacrafices my ancestors made !
My family lost alot of people in that war none ever owned a slave in fact the church ya see them building in the movie is still thereand guess what they were one of the first churches in the area that allowed blacks to sit next to the whites during church services.

I fly my flag to remember MY ancestors,(watch the movie Cold Mountain)the Inman fellow was my ggguncle, out of 7 that went to fight only he and my gggrandfather came back the rest died in prison camps or in battle..
The flag on the court house is just to remember those that fought for what they believed is right ,
You wont see the stars and stripes in my yard and probly never will because I dont think that it stands for what it was originally anymore,
I`ll fly the Betsy Ross flag but other than that it will be A Confederate flag as long as I can get out to the flag pole and put a new one up...
Its apart of history and that cant be changed, it was there before the klan adopted it(contrary to popular belief the flag was here long before the klan)

They fought with almost nothing barely had any food fought against overwhelming numbers(like 7 yankees to 1 Southerner)
I doubt very seriously that them fellers was fightin and dieing like they was just so they could keep another human in bondage..
Any of yall dont know about reconstruction break out ya history books or come and look at pictures and letters from some of the people that were here when sherman and his gang went thru here teaching the south a lesson..
Nothing left around here but people too old too fight women and children,
shermans gang went thru here putting dead animals in the wells to poison the water they burnt and stole everything they could find..
they raped and murdered they plundered, some very horrific things were done to the people here,and throughout the south..with lincolns full approval...
Kinda sheds some light on why people feel the way they do aboout yankees and the American flag...Dont it

[Aconite]

Originally Posted by Geechie North

.

But they ALL strived, begged, borrowed, kicked, and schemed to own slaves and plantations, as that was the "Southern Dream".

Then a whole bunch of those folks were completely daft, because you can't put a plantation on the side of a mountain.

The "Southern Dream" may have existed for a certain segment. For others, though, the dream was to get as far away from the cities, the people, and back into the mountains as possible (especially the multitudes of Scots who ended up here during the Clearances). For others, it was something else entirely-- starting a business or preaching the word or some other vocation. Probably, things being what they were, for a lot of them the "dream" never got further than full bellies and a dry place to sleep.

Claiming all Southerners wanted to own Tara (complete with Mammy and and Prissy) is like saying all contemporary Yankees want a McMansion and a Mexican housekeeper (papers optional). Probably some do. Maybe a lot do. But to paint wholesale with a broad brush is misleading and really kinda silly.