The Confederate flag (Charleston, Union, York: houses, quality of life, food)

[sumter native]

Originally Posted by Nauticadon

I'm so tired of hearing people talk about "heritage" in defense of that flag.

This is the flag that was carried by a confederation of people who believed slavery was righteous and just.

That flag was representative of a "nation" whose ideals and beliefs were not in the best interest of all it's citizens.

It was flown by those whose believed in, supported, and engaged in American terrorism ala the KKK.

It was flown by those who believed in, supported, and engaged in government sanctioned oppression of an entire race ala Jim Crow laws.

It was flown by those who believed in, supported, and engaged in the murder of innocent men, women, and children.

Today that same flag is flown by those who take pride in that same "heritage" that it represents and yet somehow they've managed to dillute themselves into thinking that the people who oppose what that sh*t rag represents are the real hatemongers.

Comedy at it's finest.

Im confused here you talking bout the stars and stripes or the stars and bars?
See shermans actions a after the war when there wasnt nothin left but women and children and grandpas..sherman didnt cull nothing and he sure had a hatred for the south and much like today he had the full support of the us government..
Look at pictures of some of our major cities after the war, Columbia Atlanta some of the towns the devastation in them pictures was done AFTER the war was declared over,
Read some of the letters in the museums and archives from AFTER the war was declared over
the rapin and killing and stealing were all done by troops carrying the stars and stripes..

Lets see I think the troops that wiped out the native americans were carrying the stars and stripes as well so hmmm which flag are you refering to???

[sumter native]

I missed the part where you said the flag is a **** rag, It shows your level of intellegance...
YOU SIR ARE AN ASS and very close minded about other peoples beliefs, and saying things like that will cause only problems and arguements..
To debate is one thing but to start name calling and such lowers the level in which I percieve you, I can bet ya this after that comment I will never take anything you say very seriously..
and since you have lowered yourself to name calling maybe you should oh never mind no need to talk to such a hating person..Their minds are small and very closed to others ideas
Now lets get back to YOUR FLAG...
scalping started by whites because of the amount of Native American bodies piling up due to the BOUNTY placed on them by people flying the ole stars and stripes,it was easier to store carry and present proof by the bounty hunters who were collecting them under the common practice of killing other HUMAN beings because they didnt want to be americanized...
We can talk all day about things that were done under the US flag with full government backing to commit some pretty horrindous things to other people...
Bet ya think it didnt happen in your closed up little world

[OleTomCat]

Originally Posted by Aconite

I don't suppose you can back that up?

The fact that states seceded is of pretty minimal use here, since legislators have a long history of voting the interests of the wealthy over those of the majority. (And just ftr, plantations grew more than just cotton-- tea, indigo, sugar, tobacco... though certainly cotton is firmly implanted in the mind via pop culture references.)

You forgot Rice also....

Edit: Someone already said that.....

[Speedaddicted]

Originally Posted by RiWrites

They burn the cross on peoples' property. What more do you want? An FYI they burned one when they set fire to the house my mom and her family were sleeping in. The cross is a major symbol for them.

And the picture just shows the lack of maturity on your part.

The picture was trying to lighten the mood and get the arguing down to a minimum. Once again, you judge without understanding.....

[Aconite]

Originally Posted by Geechie North

A newspaper source (NY?) was the source of the tea stories from MD and Pa. They were false.

For whom? My source was a book, actually. You remember those things. You take 'em off shelves occasionally and open 'em. Requires literacy. Darnedest thing. <g>

As for PBS...well, at least it wasn't History Channel, I suppose. But it's still perilously close to claiming Dan Brown as a Vatican historian.

[Geechie North]

Point is there was no tea in MD or Pa.
Best guess is the "tea" was sassafras.

Anyone is welcome to silly views; a distant relative, and one of the last commercial rice growers in SC, wrote the definitive book about rice growing in the Lowcountry.
He did it to showcase the nobility of the planter class.

So, say what you will about the PBS documentary. PBS and its contributors can handle it.

As for William T. Sherman, he was the man who had the vision of modern warfare; as hellish (paraphrasing him) as it is.

Yes, in SC , "That hellhole of secession", he encouraged his troops to destroy civilian property. He did not do this in Georgia, and the Georgians of the time appreciated that:
"Go and punish those weasels (the traditional name for South Carolinians) they told him.

Sherman also was the sole Union officer (at flag grade) to understand that the only way to give the newly freed slaves any chance would mean giving them land; he proposed braeking up the coastal plantations in 40 acre plots- and giving each plot to a former slave family.

Had we pursued that policy, imagine how much better things would have been for ALL South Carolinians of the present.

[Geechie North]

Brewing Up American Pride: Charleston Tea

Here's an article on the scant tea production in SC, and the dismal history of trying to get any production in North America.

From it:

Curiously, around this time, a New York Times article dated 26 October, 1863 reported on the discovery of tea plants growing natively in Western Maryland and Pennsylvania. According to a Boston Bulletin report reprinted in the Times:
The American Tea Company, an association chartered by the Legislature of Pennsylvania, have [sic] employed Dr. Spencer Bonsall, a man of experience and character, to examine the American tea plant... He declares that the tea plant exists in Pennsylvania and Western Maryland beyond all doubt. "It grows indigenously," he states, "in the greatest luxuriance and abundance in the places that I have visited, limited, however, to those localities which afford the peculiar soil indispensable to it, as is the case in China, Assam, and Japan. "...The leaf is almost identical with some of the varieties from which the best tea is made in Assam; and Dr. Bonsall expresses his belief that tea equal to any that is brought from China could be made from this plant.
In 1884, almost ten years after Forster's effort, the federal government became interested in the thus far elusive experiment down south. Its fast clipper ships and an ability to settle debts in gold have made America the world's largest importer of tea. Could it now profit by producing it's own? Commissioner of Agriculture William G. Le Duc wanted to find out. He planted an experimental farm outside Summerville, South Carolina.
Four years later, however, the government gave up the effort, having concluded that the area's climate was too unstable to sustain the tea crop."

Subtropical SC (e.g. Wadmalaw) seems to be the limit, and even there it's touch and go.

[sumter native]

Originally Posted by Geechie North

Brewing Up American Pride: Charleston Tea

Here's an article on the scant tea production in SC, and the dismal history of trying to get any production in North America.

From it:

Curiously, around this time, a New York Times article dated 26 October, 1863 reported on the discovery of tea plants growing natively in Western Maryland and Pennsylvania. According to a Boston Bulletin report reprinted in the Times:
The American Tea Company, an association chartered by the Legislature of Pennsylvania, have [sic] employed Dr. Spencer Bonsall, a man of experience and character, to examine the American tea plant... He declares that the tea plant exists in Pennsylvania and Western Maryland beyond all doubt. "It grows indigenously," he states, "in the greatest luxuriance and abundance in the places that I have visited, limited, however, to those localities which afford the peculiar soil indispensable to it, as is the case in China, Assam, and Japan. "...The leaf is almost identical with some of the varieties from which the best tea is made in Assam; and Dr. Bonsall expresses his belief that tea equal to any that is brought from China could be made from this plant.
In 1884, almost ten years after Forster's effort, the federal government became interested in the thus far elusive experiment down south. Its fast clipper ships and an ability to settle debts in gold have made America the world's largest importer of tea. Could it now profit by producing it's own? Commissioner of Agriculture William G. Le Duc wanted to find out. He planted an experimental farm outside Summerville, South Carolina.
Four years later, however, the government gave up the effort, having concluded that the area's climate was too unstable to sustain the tea crop."

Subtropical SC (e.g. Wadmalaw) seems to be the limit, and even there it's touch and go.

ITs still there

Charleston Tea Plantation - Wadmalaw Island, Charleston County, South Carolina SC

[sumter native]

Originally Posted by Geechie North

Point is there was no tea in MD or Pa.
Best guess is the "tea" was sassafras.

Anyone is welcome to silly views; a distant relative, and one of the last commercial rice growers in SC, wrote the definitive book about rice growing in the Lowcountry.
He did it to showcase the nobility of the planter class.

So, say what you will about the PBS documentary. PBS and its contributors can handle it.

As for William T. Sherman, he was the man who had the vision of modern warfare; as hellish (paraphrasing him) as it is.

Yes, in SC , "That hellhole of secession", he encouraged his troops to destroy civilian property. He did not do this in Georgia, and the Georgians of the time appreciated that:
"Go and punish those weasels (the traditional name for South Carolinians) they told him.

Sherman also was the sole Union officer (at flag grade) to understand that the only way to give the newly freed slaves any chance would mean giving them land; he proposed braeking up the coastal plantations in 40 acre plots- and giving each plot to a former slave family.

Had we pursued that policy, imagine how much better things would have been for ALL South Carolinians of the present.

NO where in modern warfare is it considered modern to do what sherman and his gang did to people here sherman was a bloodthirsty evil little bastard and if he was around now him and alot of his men would be charged with war crimes..
sherman said he would give any slave a MULE and 40 acres that left their plantations and fought against the south it was political tactic to try and get the slaves to leave the plantations because the slaves werent runnin to the yankee side in droves...I aint met one black person who has any stories in their family that got that 40 acres and a mule so that adds being a liar to shermans list of accomplishments..
most of them stayed right on the plantations , they tried to keep up the farms and such while the men of the south were off fighting an invading army
The slave master relationship was not like it was portrayed in roots in many cases yall yankees keep bringing up slavery and all that bs and I think its because yall envy us and yall are ashamed of how your invading army treated the people of the south,and if the south is so bad then why dont yall stay up there...Most of us dont really want to see any more of yall foriegners down here and I dont mean all of yall just the ones that fell you have to force your beliefs on someone else (yall up there got a really bad habit of doing that)

[sumter native]

Sherman's Atlanta Campaign he didnt attack atlanta?