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Old 08-19-2009, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
87 posts, read 267,618 times
Reputation: 27

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I'll have to go with Tom on this one. Automated, I'm sorry. You're coming to CofC as a professor, right? I fear for your students. You are unsympathetic! (just kidding, don't go off on me)
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Old 08-19-2009, 04:15 AM
 
146 posts, read 333,500 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by OleTomCat View Post
Not being pointlessly argumentative, Just trying to point out that Numbers Lie and Liars use numbers....
Except you haven't done anything to show that the numbers are. You overestimate how dangerous NYC is, and dismiss all evidence of precisely how violent Charleston can be. You're not using facts or logic to support your position. And for people on this board thinking about moving to Spring Street, for example, you telling them they won't be assaulted, raped or murdered unless they're a drug dealer is dangerous and misleading. Yes, people can misuse statistics. But that isn't what's happening here. True, you're pretty safe on Broad Street at 4 in the afternoon. But go 2 miles north and walk around at 2 AM and it is a different story. That doesn't make it a bad place to live, it just means you've got to have your wits about you when you choose what blocks to walk down. I said it before upthread- Manhattan is not like this. In a city of several million people with a population density many times that of Charleston, most blocks south of 90th street (with the exception of maybe 7 blocks or so) are totally safe to walk at all hours. There are fights and muggings, but relative to the population size they are not as frequent. That's what a rate statistic is.

And dude, please turn off your random Capital letter generator.
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Old 08-19-2009, 04:29 AM
 
146 posts, read 333,500 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlestonHelp View Post
I'll have to go with Tom on this one. Automated, I'm sorry. You're coming to CofC as a professor, right? I fear for your students. You are unsympathetic! (just kidding, don't go off on me)
I'm still waiting to see any refutation backed up by reference to reality. Tom claimed that the crime is mostly in N. Charleston, but the stats on City Data don't lump the two together and Charleston's murder and rape rates are still higher than NYC. I interacted with a lot of new New Yorkers, and they quickly saw that the image they had in their had of NYC from it's reputation in the '70s and '80s as a violent place is no longer accurate. It seems like people claiming Charleston is so safe are talking about the parts they frequent rather than the city as a whole, or trying to claim that the only victims of violent crime are criminals. So again, if anyone can give me more specific evidence to back up these claims, that would help. Until then, it's just more of this incessant drive that so many people on this board have to deny that the city has any flaws.

Don't worry about my students, their skin will harden as the semester goes on....
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Summerville
7,934 posts, read 17,261,411 times
Reputation: 1360
The sheer numbers of crimes in NYC with it's sprawling size allows for the disparage in numbers....

Walking four blocks off of Broad st. is the equivalent of comparing Manhattan with walking in Harlem....

That is comparing population density.....

With a Murder rate of 6.3 per 100K and a population of 8.3Mill that gives you a total of 523 murders a year, that is more than all of the total crimes in the Charleston/tricounty area combined....

You can not population normalize the numbers and say that one city that has a higher crime rate but only 10K people is a more dangerous place to live than some place like NYC. That is why I don't like the use of statistics to show how 'dangerous' someplace may bE.....
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Old 08-19-2009, 06:32 PM
 
146 posts, read 333,500 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by OleTomCat View Post
The sheer numbers of crimes in NYC with it's sprawling size allows for the disparage in numbers....

Walking four blocks off of Broad st. is the equivalent of comparing Manhattan with walking in Harlem....

That is comparing population density.....

You can not population normalize the numbers and say that one city that has a higher crime rate but only 10K people is a more dangerous place to live than some place like NYC. That is why I don't like the use of statistics to show how 'dangerous' someplace may bE.....
You're still not making sense. The population density in Harlem is as high as it is in the rest of Manhattan. Parts of Harlem are very dangerous (but increasingly less so). Harlem is in Manhattan. But when you average it out with how safe the rest of Manhattan is, your chances of being the victim of a violent crime in Manhattan are lower than they are in Charleston. Less than 1 mile away from the CofC campus things get dangerous very quickly, especially at night. Manhattan, even with a more dense population, has more spatial distance between its safe and its dangerous areas than Charleston.

It seems like you're asserting that a larger city must be more dangerous b/c of the raw volume of crime. But there are plenty of small cities with extremely high crime rates, places where the affluent fled to the suburbs leaving the city to the economically disenfranchised (Baltimore fits this profile). Manhattan by contrast has had a huge influx of upper middle class, which has pushed the poorer populations either to the outer limits of the outer boroughs or to satellite cities like Newark. Despite the fact that there are more crimes committed in NYC, that does not make it more dangerous to the average resident. I don't get why you're fighting this so hard. Your chances of being murdered or raped in Charleston are higher than they are in Manhattan- not by a huge amount, but it is certainly misleading to describe NYC as dangerous and Charleston as safe just b/c one has more people. FWIW as a contextual factor, NYC has much tougher gun laws, which may contribute to a lower murder rate.

Also, let's not forget that the gentrification project in Manhattan is way further along than it is in Charleston, for better or for worse. In the student ghetto, you have a very affluent, very white college population raised mostly in suburban and rural environments (we saw the numbers- it's a fairly homogeneous population in some respects) living in neighborhoods also occupied by poor, urban African-Americans. At these borderlands, crime tends to be pretty rampant. These are all contextual factors you seem to be downplaying.
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Summerville, SC
41 posts, read 117,779 times
Reputation: 47
I would add to the discussion, but I'm afraid to step out of my house. Yes, I live on the mean streets of Wescott Plantation.

You know, I don't care that people look at crime stats (accurate or not) and decide not to move here. In fact, and you won't find this in Conde' Nast, we have flesh eating Africans here. They have a mighty appetite for people from New Jersey, and Ohio. They will eat your children and pee in your shrubbery in front of your new sub-division house. They also have a deadly curse song that they sing about outsiders driving on 526, 6-2:30, M-F. No stats for that crap. Just stay off the roads. Watch yourself at the 526 -26 merge.

Also, anyone who looks at stats on some random web-page, doesn't come down to see it for themselves, well ... they probably got their balls stolen somewhere north of the Mason-Dixon.

Last edited by Phillip Beard; 08-19-2009 at 09:09 PM..
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Summerville
7,934 posts, read 17,261,411 times
Reputation: 1360
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillip beard View Post
i would add to the discussion, but i'm afraid to step out of my house. Yes, i live on the mean streets of wescott plantation.

You know, i don't care that people look at crime stats (accurate or not) and decide not to move here. In fact, and you won't find this in conde' nast, we have flesh eating africans here. They have a mighty appetite for people from new jersey, and ohio. They will eat your children and pee in your shrubbery in front of your new sub-division house. They also have a deadly curse song that they sing about outsiders driving on 526, 6-2:30, m-f. No stats for that crap. Just stay off the roads. Watch yourself at the 526 -26 merge.

Also, anyone who looks at stats on some random web-page, doesn't come down to see it for themselves, well ... They probably got their balls stolen somewhere north of the mason-dixon.
^5.....
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Summerville
7,934 posts, read 17,261,411 times
Reputation: 1360
Automated just keep drinking the coolaide you will be fine....

Soilent green anyone.....
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:44 AM
 
146 posts, read 333,500 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by OleTomCat View Post
Automated just keep drinking the coolaide you will be fine....

Soilent green anyone.....
Which sounds more cultlike Tom- 1) a group of people who live in the suburbs claiming the urban area (where they don't even reside) is safe, in the face of mounds of evidence and analysis to the contrary, or 2)a minority pointing out that this groupthink doesn't square up with the on-the-ground experience of the majority of those who actually live in the neighborhoods in question?

Still waiting for some logic to work its way into your thought process. But this many posts in, I'm not expecting miracles. As much as you keep insisting I can't claim NYC is safer, when was the last time you were there?
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Summerville
7,934 posts, read 17,261,411 times
Reputation: 1360
Quote:
Originally Posted by automated View Post
Still waiting for some logic to work its way into your thought process. But this many posts in, I'm not expecting miracles. As much as you keep insisting I can't claim NYC is safer, when was the last time you were there?
Please no personal attacks
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