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Unread 07-17-2011, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Clendenin, WV
3,254 posts, read 2,538,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
Chris, there are actually many more people living in Morgantown most of the year (the 9 1/2 months school is in session). It has nothing to do with the size of the towns. It has to do with the characteristics. The towns have different types of populations. Ours is perhaps rowdier... we have a lot of young folks here, but Charleston has more of a ghetto area, which tends to have higher violent and property crime rates. Not trying to start anything here, but those differences are obvious.
But Morgantown doesn't have an urban metro of 200k! Charleston proper has 50k, but add in the whole "city" then you are talking about a city that is in comparison with much large city proper towns in other states.

Sure Charleston has its ghetto (the 10 blocks on the West Side that isn't so bad), but it isn't a "ghetto area!"

I'm just saying that for a city with the characteristics of Charleston, our crime rate is not that bad.
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Unread 07-17-2011, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Clendenin, WV
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Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Charleston is not dense. It has around 1500 people per square mile: Charleston, West Virginia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia That is more small town than city. Also I wouldnt say Charleston has a skyline. It has a few medium sized buildings. I guess for WV it is good, but gets blown away by an actual City.

Morgantown is 3x more dense than Charleston: Morgantown, West Virginia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and that is not including the students. Sure you could argue since they arent residents they shouldnt count, but when they are there there are certainly more people per square mile. I would say in the summer Morgantown is 4.5 more dense than Charleston, but during the regular semester it is probably 6x more dense than Charleston. I admit it doesnt have much of a skyline, but downtown is nice, and the waterfront blows anything in Charleston away.

Point being Charleston is technically city, but it doesnt feel like one. It is not urban and doesnt have an impressive skyline. That doesnt mean it is a bad place to live. Some people would prefer the not dense big town atmosphere of Charleston to the hustle and bustle of a real city.
If you don't think Charleston is urban, then you haven't seen all 100% of it. The reason our average density is so low is because the city limits stretch into areas in the area which nobody lives. Down in the valley, the population is much more dence, mostly on the East End.

Our skyline isn't all that tall, but is is one, and makes our city feel more like a city then a small town. Downtown is very dence with the Village District taking up 3 blocks of late 1800s and early 1900s architecture. I disagree that our skyline is unattractive, its all based on the angle you're looking at it.

Here is a good angle


Google Image Result for http://w209.photobucket.com/albums/bb284/Kimberzyz/Charleston/Charleston_WV_skyline.jpg

Here are some really great pictures of Charleston, its skyline, and the capitol building! I hope you look at these because they are beautiful!

Charleston, West Virginia - MetroScenes.com – City Skyline and Urban Photography by Matt Robinson
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Unread 07-17-2011, 10:08 PM
 
6,352 posts, read 3,117,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscross309 View Post
But Morgantown doesn't have an urban metro of 200k! Charleston proper has 50k, but add in the whole "city" then you are talking about a city that is in comparison with much large city proper towns in other states.

Sure Charleston has its ghetto (the 10 blocks on the West Side that isn't so bad), but it isn't a "ghetto area!"

I'm just saying that for a city with the characteristics of Charleston, our crime rate is not that bad.
Charleston is a safe city. I cant think of any dangerous areas of WV. What im saying is Charleston is not dense. You mentioned it was a city and mentioned dense neighborhoods. If you want to talk about total population then it is a city, but it is not an urban city. It is more like a giant town surrounded by smaller towns. The metro area for the most part is small towns and rural areas.

You are right the whole Charleston metro area, which is basically a whole county and neighboring counties, or an area of a few hundred square miles, than you have a similar population to Pittsburgh proper which is 40 square miles. It just goes to reinforce that Charleston is not very urban or dense. To be fair it isnt a sprawling sunbelt city or endless suburbia. It is more of a crowded rural area.

I have a friend that lives 10 minutes from downtown Charleston and they live on a farm with several acres. Next to them is another farm, and than another one. That is what Charleston seems to me.
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Unread 07-17-2011, 10:14 PM
 
6,352 posts, read 3,117,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscross309 View Post
If you don't think Charleston is urban, then you haven't seen all 100% of it. The reason our average density is so low is because the city limits stretch into areas in the area which nobody lives. Down in the valley, the population is much more dence, mostly on the East End.

Our skyline isn't all that tall, but is is one, and makes our city feel more like a city then a small town. Downtown is very dence with the Village District taking up 3 blocks of late 1800s and early 1900s architecture. I disagree that our skyline is unattractive, its all based on the angle you're looking at it.

Here is a good angle


Google Image Result for http://w209.photobucket.com/albums/bb284/Kimberzyz/Charleston/Charleston_WV_skyline.jpg

Here are some really great pictures of Charleston, its skyline, and the capitol building! I hope you look at these because they are beautiful!

Charleston, West Virginia - MetroScenes.com – City Skyline and Urban Photography by Matt Robinson
The downtown skyline is overall more impressive than Morgantown, but I still find it boring, small, and unimpressive.

When I was kid and first visited Charleston after living in Morgantown I thought Charleston was impressive, although I had lived in Boston I had forgotten how it looked. Fast forward to later. By this time I had seen the great American cities, and had lived in Austin, DC, visited Europe, and lived in SA for a few months. When I saw downtown Charleston I thought, "this is it?" I remembered it being much better. It was underwhelming.

Charleston just cant compare to a real city.

I do admit that the second photo of Charleston makes it look nice, but from the right angle any city can look a little better. Even Morgantown.
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Unread 07-18-2011, 01:23 AM
Status: "Okay. This is the one I meant to post." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,889 posts, read 4,015,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscross309 View Post
But Morgantown doesn't have an urban metro of 200k! Charleston proper has 50k, but add in the whole "city" then you are talking about a city that is in comparison with much large city proper towns in other states.

Sure Charleston has its ghetto (the 10 blocks on the West Side that isn't so bad), but it isn't a "ghetto area!"

I'm just saying that for a city with the characteristics of Charleston, our crime rate is not that bad.
Chris, the "metro" designation is largely arbitrary and misleading. Kanawha County has about the same land mass and population as the combination of Monongalia, Marion, and Harrison counties (Morgantown=Fairmont-Clarksburg) although the Feds haven't yet joined them together in the same "metro" area. Also, Morgantown is located exactly 5 miles from the 2 million person Pittsburgh Metro area on the Fayette County side (Uniontown). The total population of the Morgantown region is easily equal to that of Charleston's metro area.

I'm not trying to put Charleston down when I say this, but they count Pond Gap as being in the Charleston metro area. Have you ever been to Pond Gap? It is something like 20 miles out a dirt road from greater downtown Glasgow. So, if you add up all the people for a 50 square mile area around Charleston you might get the same population as a medium sized American city like Pittsburgh has in their city limits. If you did the same thing with Morgantown, or Huntington, you'd get a larger population base.
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Unread 07-18-2011, 01:30 AM
Status: "Okay. This is the one I meant to post." (set 12 days ago)
 
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Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
The downtown skyline is overall more impressive than Morgantown, but I still find it boring, small, and unimpressive.

When I was kid and first visited Charleston after living in Morgantown I thought Charleston was impressive, although I had lived in Boston I had forgotten how it looked. Fast forward to later. By this time I had seen the great American cities, and had lived in Austin, DC, visited Europe, and lived in SA for a few months. When I saw downtown Charleston I thought, "this is it?" I remembered it being much better. It was underwhelming.

Charleston just cant compare to a real city.

I do admit that the second photo of Charleston makes it look nice, but from the right angle any city can look a little better. Even Morgantown.
Charleston has a couple 20 story buildings for bank headquarters and the like. We really don't have anything like that in Morgantown because we are not that type of town. There are a couple of companies that have their national headquarters here, but 20 story office buildings (except for in the Wharf District) are out of the question. They wouldn't be approved by the building committee. We aren't trying to grow into a city with those characteristics. Morgantown wants development, but it wants the downtown to retain the college town ambience.
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Unread 07-18-2011, 01:36 AM
Status: "Okay. This is the one I meant to post." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,889 posts, read 4,015,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscross309 View Post
But Morgantown doesn't have an urban metro of 200k! Charleston proper has 50k, but add in the whole "city" then you are talking about a city that is in comparison with much large city proper towns in other states.

Sure Charleston has its ghetto (the 10 blocks on the West Side that isn't so bad), but it isn't a "ghetto area!"

I'm just saying that for a city with the characteristics of Charleston, our crime rate is not that bad.
I would agree with that.
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Unread 07-18-2011, 01:38 AM
Status: "Okay. This is the one I meant to post." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,889 posts, read 4,015,950 times
Reputation: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
The downtown skyline is overall more impressive than Morgantown, but I still find it boring, small, and unimpressive.

When I was kid and first visited Charleston after living in Morgantown I thought Charleston was impressive, although I had lived in Boston I had forgotten how it looked. Fast forward to later. By this time I had seen the great American cities, and had lived in Austin, DC, visited Europe, and lived in SA for a few months. When I saw downtown Charleston I thought, "this is it?" I remembered it being much better. It was underwhelming.

Charleston just cant compare to a real city.

I do admit that the second photo of Charleston makes it look nice, but from the right angle any city can look a little better. Even Morgantown.
They are impressive in different ways. Morgantown does not seek the tall buildings (although the state of WV does not have any that would be considered that in most other states). It wants low rise research development and light industry, and keeping the college town feel.
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Unread 07-18-2011, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Clendenin, WV
3,254 posts, read 2,538,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cry_havoc View Post
Charleston is a safe city. I cant think of any dangerous areas of WV. What im saying is Charleston is not dense. You mentioned it was a city and mentioned dense neighborhoods. If you want to talk about total population then it is a city, but it is not an urban city. It is more like a giant town surrounded by smaller towns. The metro area for the most part is small towns and rural areas.

You are right the whole Charleston metro area, which is basically a whole county and neighboring counties, or an area of a few hundred square miles, than you have a similar population to Pittsburgh proper which is 40 square miles. It just goes to reinforce that Charleston is not very urban or dense. To be fair it isnt a sprawling sunbelt city or endless suburbia. It is more of a crowded rural area.

I have a friend that lives 10 minutes from downtown Charleston and they live on a farm with several acres. Next to them is another farm, and than another one. That is what Charleston seems to me.
I meant that the valley itself is very dence. Its hard to build dence neighborhoods outside of the valley because of the rough terrain. If you look at Sattilite Pics of Charleston, then you will notice that from Poca to Quincy, there is nothing but dence urban neighborhoods on both sides of the river. It follows the river and doesn't stretch too far into the hills except for some areas like Pinch, South Hills, Cross Lanes, and Teays Valley. The city limits strech outside of town into the hilly landscape and makes it seem rural, but the actual city is very dence with both business and people.

And no, we are not a sprawling sunbelt city and I'm glad for it! We are more like a Midwest town that lives off of our river.
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Unread 07-18-2011, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Clendenin, WV
3,254 posts, read 2,538,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
Chris, the "metro" designation is largely arbitrary and misleading. Kanawha County has about the same land mass and population as the combination of Monongalia, Marion, and Harrison counties (Morgantown=Fairmont-Clarksburg) although the Feds haven't yet joined them together in the same "metro" area. Also, Morgantown is located exactly 5 miles from the 2 million person Pittsburgh Metro area on the Fayette County side (Uniontown). The total population of the Morgantown region is easily equal to that of Charleston's metro area.

I'm not trying to put Charleston down when I say this, but they count Pond Gap as being in the Charleston metro area. Have you ever been to Pond Gap? It is something like 20 miles out a dirt road from greater downtown Glasgow. So, if you add up all the people for a 50 square mile area around Charleston you might get the same population as a medium sized American city like Pittsburgh has in their city limits. If you did the same thing with Morgantown, or Huntington, you'd get a larger population base.
But the urban metro population is within the actual Kanawha Valley, and not the whole county. It stretches into Putnam, and is very dence in towns like Dunbar, South Charleston, Saint Albans, Cross Lanes, and Teays Valley. The county is big, but I'm not counting Elkview, Pinch, Sissonsville, Alum Creek, and other small bedrooms as urban. Only the neighborhoods like the West Side, East End, Kanwha City, South Hills, Spring Hill, Montrose, Westmorlan, ect... are urban and really feel urban.

If you drive alomg Washington St. from end to end, you will see a great urban mixture of apartment complexes and businesses. We really are dence, its just that a couple miles outside of the urban, is farmland and some smaller subdivisions.

I don't have to count places like Pond Gap because they aren't places in my mind, but the cities of our valley like SC, SA, Dunbar, Nitro, Cross Lanes, and Charleston itself add p enough to make us the largest urban center in the state.
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