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Old 09-20-2011, 07:02 AM
 
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It certainly has the potential to make a major impact in the southern part of the state, but not likely the whole state. Folks in the Eastern portion will still go to the much larger Harrisburg area Cabelas on I-78, and those in the northern part will join with the folks from Pittsburgh and Cleveland in going to the mega Cabelas in Wheeling.

By the way, there are equally awesome outdoor venues in North Central WV and nearby PA and MD, compared with what is available in Fayette County. The Wheeling Cabelas serves that larger market as well as what your store will serve the regional market there. But, I agree with your assessment of what will happen down there.

I am not missing the Cabelas market as a whole. You are underestimating it.

It can be a game changer, and what it might well do is entice the different folks who are now shopping downtown to shop at Southridge as new merchants locate there due to increased retail traffic. It might not be as different from Wheeling as you imagine.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Clendenin, WV
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Don't get me wrong, The Wheeling Cabela's has a huge market. But it really isn't a "state-wide" store. It is more for the I-70 traffic, and the Cleveland/Pittsburgh areas. The store in Charleston creates a center piece for one of the largest recreation areas on the East Coast. You are not only getting the people who will drive from Lexington, KY for just the store, but the people who will be white water rafting on the Gauley, or riding on the Hatfield & McCoy trail. The folks who will travel south on 79, 77, and east on 64, and the folks who are here in Charleston for a convention or business meeting. Cabela's is not for locals, that is what Gander Mountain is for. Cabela's is going to attract the tourist.

Downtown is its own market. It plays host to the business crowd and the "cultural minded" people. Southridge is just another big box store mess. I don't think that any business from downtown will move to southridge because it's two different styles of shopping and dining.

Kinda like High Street and UTC, or better yet Pullman Square/Downtown Huntington and the Hunt. Mall area.

The Cabela's will only help business downtown because now you have people that would have not stopped in Charleston while traveling through, stopping at Cabela's and possibly adventuring off into town because they have discovered that there is alot more here than just a Cabela's.
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Old 09-20-2011, 06:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chriscross309 View Post
Don't get me wrong, The Wheeling Cabela's has a huge market. But it really isn't a "state-wide" store. It is more for the I-70 traffic, and the Cleveland/Pittsburgh areas. The store in Charleston creates a center piece for one of the largest recreation areas on the East Coast. You are not only getting the people who will drive from Lexington, KY for just the store, but the people who will be white water rafting on the Gauley, or riding on the Hatfield & McCoy trail. The folks who will travel south on 79, 77, and east on 64, and the folks who are here in Charleston for a convention or business meeting. Cabela's is not for locals, that is what Gander Mountain is for. Cabela's is going to attract the tourist.

Downtown is its own market. It plays host to the business crowd and the "cultural minded" people. Southridge is just another big box store mess. I don't think that any business from downtown will move to southridge because it's two different styles of shopping and dining.

Kinda like High Street and UTC, or better yet Pullman Square/Downtown Huntington and the Hunt. Mall area.

The Cabela's will only help business downtown because now you have people that would have not stopped in Charleston while traveling through, stopping at Cabela's and possibly adventuring off into town because they have discovered that there is alot more here than just a Cabela's.
Neither store would be a statewide store. The state is far too fragmented to have a statewide store anywhere. Major population centers in the north and east are far removed from the Charleston location and would be much closer to Wheeling or Harrisburg, both of which have mega Cabelas.

It might very well attract folks from outside of Charleston. I would certainly hope so since there aren't many people living there any more. But it isn't about the downtown being its own market. It is about what is attracted to be near a Cabelas to capitalize on the traffic associated with the store. The downtown market will be miniscule compared with that, and it could lure retailers who want to take advantage of the additional people.

White water rafting in Fayette and the atv trail are indeed important tourist destinations, but no more so than the region around here. Deep Creek Lake in MD, the Yough and Cheat rivers, ski destinations in the region and Mountaineer athletics draw huge crowds in this area as does Coopers Rock, Chestnut Ridge Park, and the state parks in PA, MD, OH, and WV. Then there is proximity to DC and Pittsburgh to consider.

Your store will be a focal point for your region, but it will not have a statewide customer base. It will draw heavily from areas to the west and south though as well as the tourists you mentioned to the east since they are outdoors types. It will also get some business from the new scouting camp. But, if you don't think locals will shop at Cabelas you are delusional. Gander Mountain will likely be in trouble. Have you ever been in a Cabelas?
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Clendenin, WV
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Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
Neither store would be a statewide store. The state is far too fragmented to have a statewide store anywhere. Major population centers in the north and east are far removed from the Charleston location and would be much closer to Wheeling or Harrisburg, both of which have mega Cabelas.

It might very well attract folks from outside of Charleston. I would certainly hope so since there aren't many people living there any more. But it isn't about the downtown being its own market. It is about what is attracted to be near a Cabelas to capitalize on the traffic associated with the store. The downtown market will be miniscule compared with that, and it could lure retailers who want to take advantage of the additional people.

White water rafting in Fayette and the atv trail are indeed important tourist destinations, but no more so than the region around here. Deep Creek Lake in MD, the Yough and Cheat rivers, ski destinations in the region and Mountaineer athletics draw huge crowds in this area as does Coopers Rock, Chestnut Ridge Park, and the state parks in PA, MD, OH, and WV. Then there is proximity to DC and Pittsburgh to consider.

Your store will be a focal point for your region, but it will not have a statewide customer base. It will draw heavily from areas to the west and south though as well as the tourists you mentioned to the east since they are outdoors types. It will also get some business from the new scouting camp. But, if you don't think locals will shop at Cabelas you are delusional. Gander Mountain will likely be in trouble. Have you ever been in a Cabelas?
For one I said Cabela's isn't for locals, not that locals won't use it. Of course they will, but Gander Mountain is more of the local store that is cheaper, while Cabela's is more for visitors and travelers. Gander Mountain will be fine, because the people that will go to Cabela's will see the Gander Mountain righ next door and make the trip inside it aswell.

I mentioned two examples of things located near Charleston that would attract customers, but there is certainly more to do here in this region of WV than any other. People that are visiting WV will likely stop by, plus you get the traffic off of 79,77, and 64. Charleston is in the "road map" center of the state, and it will be a "state-wide" store in those reguards. Plus people from all over the state come to Charleston because we are the capital city.

Once again, business in downtown won't move closer to Cabela's because its two different styles of shopping and dining. Places like Taylor Books, Blossom Deli, Pie's and Pints, Adelphia, Itchiban, First Watch, ect... wouldn't move because they are directly tied to the downtown businesses and the art community. Southridge couldn't support them because of the mass number of chain stores and restaurants. The two can't really mix all that well, so those places will still call downtown home. The Town Center is the same way, but for a different reason. The stores there are more urban cultured, and more upper class than the shopping out at Southridge.
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Old 09-20-2011, 08:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chriscross309 View Post
For one I said Cabela's isn't for locals, not that locals won't use it. Of course they will, but Gander Mountain is more of the local store that is cheaper, while Cabela's is more for visitors and travelers. Gander Mountain will be fine, because the people that will go to Cabela's will see the Gander Mountain righ next door and make the trip inside it aswell.

I mentioned two examples of things located near Charleston that would attract customers, but there is certainly more to do here in this region of WV than any other. People that are visiting WV will likely stop by, plus you get the traffic off of 79,77, and 64. Charleston is in the "road map" center of the state, and it will be a "state-wide" store in those reguards. Plus people from all over the state come to Charleston because we are the capital city.

Once again, business in downtown won't move closer to Cabela's because its two different styles of shopping and dining. Places like Taylor Books, Blossom Deli, Pie's and Pints, Adelphia, Itchiban, First Watch, ect... wouldn't move because they are directly tied to the downtown businesses and the art community. Southridge couldn't support them because of the mass number of chain stores and restaurants. The two can't really mix all that well, so those places will still call downtown home. The Town Center is the same way, but for a different reason. The stores there are more urban cultured, and more upper class than the shopping out at Southridge.
Let's not get into arguments about which town has more to do. I mean, really. I worked for many years for the state of wv and had a wife from right up the road. In fact, she lived a half hour closer to that whitewater area than Charleston (the greater Glasgow-Cedar Grove metro area). I know what there is to do in Charleston. Most of the people on the forum know what there is to do in Charleston. There is more to do here, but that is beside the point. You say it is a regional thing, and I accept that.

So, in your region you have everything from Beckley to Lexington to Fayetteville to south of Sutton. In this region we have everything from Sutton to north of Pittsburgh to Wheeling, to DC. Let's put it up for a vote. Not even counting what is happening in the towns, which region has more going on in it? Since we're talking Cabelas, I'll even take DC out of it because Harrisburg slightly closer. Same with Martinsburg. So substitute Cumberland for DC. This region still has a hundred times more to do. We are within 3 hours of some amazing things here.
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Old 09-21-2011, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Clendenin, WV
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I don't know how this got to comparing our regions. I didn't even mention your region, which doesn't include Martinsburg or DC???

But now that we are on the topic let me describe my region to ya. For one, if we are going by land, you didn't give our region my of it, plus you added Pittsburgh and Cumberland which have nothing to do with WV. Which brings me to my next point, Charleston influences alot of Eastern Ohio, Northern KY, and all of Central and Southern WV. Plus the metro area is the largest in the state with over 300k, and Huntington is just next door. Lexington is close by, and I'd consider Parkersburg and Beckley close enough to count as well. Now that we have a clear understanding of how much land Charleston influences, we can now see that it is a big chuck of land with millions of things to do.

Lets start along the Kanawha River (outside of Charleston) for things to do, since you brought it up. Kanawha Falls, Historic Glen Ferris Inn, Historic Gauley Bridge, Gauley River National recreation area, Hawks Nest State Park, Hawks Nest Resort, New River Gorge National River, New River Gorge Visitor Center, Historic Fayetteville, Tree tops Canopey tours, white water rafting, Summersville Lake. Now to the West we have, Beech Fork State Park, the Ohio River, Yatesville Lake State Park, KY, Huntington/Ashland/Ironton metro. To the north there is Parkersburg and Blennerhassett Island Historical State Park, the Ohio River Islands National Wildlife Refuge, Cedar Lakes State Recreation Center, Sutton Lake, Cedar Creek State park, ect... To the South we have the Hatfield and McCoy trail system, Cheif Logan State Park and Resort, Tamarack, Babcock state Park, Pipestem State Park and Resort, Glade Springs Resort,

And now for the things to right here. The State Capitol Complex, which includes the Cultural Center, the state museum, the State War Memorial, The Capitol itself. Kanawha State Forest, which has some of the best hiking and biking trails in WV, Historic East end of Charleston, Historic Village District, South Charleston Indian Mound, Clay Center for Arts and Science, the historic district of Malden, The Capotol Theater, the state's largest boating community, Coonskin Park, The famous Midland trail, the Capitol market, Danial Boone Waterfront Park, Sunrise mansion, The Crail-Patton House, Magic Island, The WV Power and the beautiful Appalachian Power Park, Haddad Riverfront Park, the Charleston civic center, The Heritage Towers Museum, The Municipal Auditorium, Capitol convention Center, Charleston Town Center, Bridge Road District, Little Creek Park, Shawnee regional Park, Ridenour Lake and Memorial Park, and Mardi Gras Casino and Resort! If I've left anything out, I'd be glad to hear it LOL! Plus we have the state's largest airport that brings in the most people in the state.

The point is that Charleston is our state's center piece! It is not only the hub of all major travel, but all major tourism destinations. Even the Eastern Panhandle and Southeastern parts of the state are easy to get to, and are close enough that its not really a big deal to identify with them. There is alot to do here, and I realize that there is in Morgantown. But Motown isn't as big as an impact on its region as Charleston is to its. Morgantown is only a small fish in a big pond with Pittsburgh which is great. But Charleston is closer to alot more recreation than Mtown is, even with Cheat Lake, Coopers Rock, and the Mon River.
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:17 AM
 
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Chris, it is true that there is little around Charleston for many miles, and that it is the focal point of that sparcely populated region that is almost entirely within the political confines of the State of West Virginia. But, if we count Beckley as being in the same region as Charleston, we have to count Pittsburgh (which is closer) as being in our region. I agree about Martinsburg, and removed it from consideration.

The comments weren't about West Virginia per se, they were about the effects of a Cabelas. Shoppers don't pay any attention to arbitrary political boundaries, or arbitrary MSA designations, or whether their shopping at a Cabelas would hurt a Gandor Mountain or not. They shop where it is most convenient, where the price structure is best, where the selection is best, and where the ambience is most pleasant. We could argue till we're blue in the face about whether there is more to do in our region or yours, but if you actually believe there is more to do there I suspect you haven't spent much time around here.

Regardless, we all have our opinions. There are good reasons our area is one of the two growing areas within the state. The entertainment/recreation options and other amenities available play a significant role in that development. Perhaps you have another explaination?

US 19 cuts off from I79 south of Clarksburg and cuts down to Beckley, essentially eliminating Charleston from folks going whitewatering or viewing the bridge from going anywhere even close to Charleston if they are coming from the north or the south. In that regard, it is not a friend to either Cabelas or Charleston. Still, I would agree that the draw of a Cabelas would be strong enough to get many to slide over to Charleston to shop there. And, if it would do that, what do you think it would do with folks who don't have as far to go... like those already living in the Charleston area? I can't believe you actually think it won't affect existing business.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:07 AM
 
Location: West Cobb County, GA (Atlanta metro)
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Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
I know what there is to do in Charleston. Most of the people on the forum know what there is to do in Charleston.
Actually, most of the people in the forum are not even aware of Charleston, West Virginia, CT (unless you are specifically talking only about those in the WV room). That's why so many folks browse the room each day - to learn what there is to do in the varying areas of the state based on postings by the locals.

Regarding Cabela's: I doubt many other businesses would put their eggs into that basket hoping that one store will attract enough people to support surrounding businesses as well. Here in Atlanta, most people aren't even willing to drive through traffic here to the other side of town to visit similar type stores there - much less go out of state for one. It usually takes a larger niche than that such as an entire shopping complex (open air or mall) to draw significant numbers of people in. Charleston has changed a bit since I lived there, but I don't see that trend changing much since then, either.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:14 AM
 
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Greg, Cabelas is different. It's hard to explain unless
you've seen one. They have an incredible selection of
every type of outdoor item. Going to one of their stores
is like going on a field trip. They have large animal displays,
aquariums, massive product displays, etc. It's worth
seeing even if you aren't buying anything. Believe me, a
Cabelas store is a game changer. In Wheeling, basically
an entire huge shopping complex built up around one with
large auto dealerships and virtually every other type of
establishment.

I was talking about those in the West Virginia room.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Chriscross309 View Post
I don't know how this got to comparing our regions. I didn't even mention your region, which doesn't include Martinsburg or DC???

But now that we are on the topic let me describe my region to ya. For one, if we are going by land, you didn't give our region my of it, plus you added Pittsburgh and Cumberland which have nothing to do with WV. Which brings me to my next point, Charleston influences alot of Eastern Ohio, Northern KY, and all of Central and Southern WV. Plus the metro area is the largest in the state with over 300k, and Huntington is just next door. Lexington is close by, and I'd consider Parkersburg and Beckley close enough to count as well. Now that we have a clear understanding of how much land Charleston influences, we can now see that it is a big chuck of land with millions of things to do.

Lets start along the Kanawha River (outside of Charleston) for things to do, since you brought it up. Kanawha Falls, Historic Glen Ferris Inn, Historic Gauley Bridge, Gauley River National recreation area, Hawks Nest State Park, Hawks Nest Resort, New River Gorge National River, New River Gorge Visitor Center, Historic Fayetteville, Tree tops Canopey tours, white water rafting, Summersville Lake. Now to the West we have, Beech Fork State Park, the Ohio River, Yatesville Lake State Park, KY, Huntington/Ashland/Ironton metro. To the north there is Parkersburg and Blennerhassett Island Historical State Park, the Ohio River Islands National Wildlife Refuge, Cedar Lakes State Recreation Center, Sutton Lake, Cedar Creek State park, ect... To the South we have the Hatfield and McCoy trail system, Cheif Logan State Park and Resort, Tamarack, Babcock state Park, Pipestem State Park and Resort, Glade Springs Resort,

And now for the things to right here. The State Capitol Complex, which includes the Cultural Center, the state museum, the State War Memorial, The Capitol itself. Kanawha State Forest, which has some of the best hiking and biking trails in WV, Historic East end of Charleston, Historic Village District, South Charleston Indian Mound, Clay Center for Arts and Science, the historic district of Malden, The Capotol Theater, the state's largest boating community, Coonskin Park, The famous Midland trail, the Capitol market, Danial Boone Waterfront Park, Sunrise mansion, The Crail-Patton House, Magic Island, The WV Power and the beautiful Appalachian Power Park, Haddad Riverfront Park, the Charleston civic center, The Heritage Towers Museum, The Municipal Auditorium, Capitol convention Center, Charleston Town Center, Bridge Road District, Little Creek Park, Shawnee regional Park, Ridenour Lake and Memorial Park, and Mardi Gras Casino and Resort! If I've left anything out, I'd be glad to hear it LOL! Plus we have the state's largest airport that brings in the most people in the state.

The point is that Charleston is our state's center piece! It is not only the hub of all major travel, but all major tourism destinations. Even the Eastern Panhandle and Southeastern parts of the state are easy to get to, and are close enough that its not really a big deal to identify with them. There is alot to do here, and I realize that there is in Morgantown. But Motown isn't as big as an impact on its region as Charleston is to its. Morgantown is only a small fish in a big pond with Pittsburgh which is great. But Charleston is closer to alot more recreation than Mtown is, even with Cheat Lake, Coopers Rock, and the Mon River.
To further respond to your post Chris, if you go far enough out from Charleston you can find lots of stuff to do, that's true. Most of what you mention is quite a hike from Charleston, and you surely have to include much of what you mention as being at least as much in this area as in the Charleston area... I mean Parkersburg, Sutton (which is considered NCWV), those are a stretch.

You do have a closer casino... we have two in this region, one at Wheeling and the other at Washington, PA. Those are close enough, although they are talking about building one at Fairmont. Personally, I hope they don't do it. My brother has done a lot of work for a casino. In general, you can keep the traffic one of those brings to an area. The costs associated with one are hard to recover because state government rips off most of the proceeds rather than leaving them with the communities that have to endure the negatives of having one nearby.

Within 2 hours of our area we have an amazing array of state and federal parks in WV, MD, and PA. I don't want to take the time to list them, but highlights would include Tygart Lake, Prickett's Fort, Deep Creek Lake, Ohiopyle, Fort Necessity National Battlefield, Coopers Rock State Forest with 17,000 acres of pristine forest land, the WVU Forest, Chestnut Ridge County Park, Fallingwater, Blackwater Falls, Canaan Valley, Senaca Rocks, Rocky Gap State Park, and many others.

You have a nice minor league baseball team and park in Charleston. If I'm not mistaken, it's a farm team for the Pittsburgh Pirates which is our local professional team. But, we have Mountaineer athletics right here. This week LSU is in town for the week's premier national matchup. We also have a nice riverfront park here that is connected to what will soon be more than 80 miles of contiguous rail trails. Hiking, biking, rock climbing, and camping activities abound in this beautiful area. So does caving, and we have two nice whitewater rivers as well that are much closer for us than Summersville is to Charleston. We have not only the Core Arboretum, but also the outstanding botanical garden at Cheat Lake.

You do have the state's largest airport by far. But, that is inconsequential for us because we have 2 nice small ones that provide us with direct connections via Washington, DC as well an an international airport with flights to hundreds of destinations just an hour up the road.

I realize that, in Charleston, it is common to think you are the center of the universe for the state. Politically, that is true. Culturally, economically, recreationally, and in every other way it is not true. A lot more of this state looks to Pittsburgh, Washington, Morgantown, and even Cincinnati in those ways than they do to Charleston, which is simply too small to hold that sort of sway over an area as large and diverse geographically and socially as is West Virginia. Our residents support the Pittsburgh, DC, and Cincy pro teams rather than the minor league team in Charleston, and the vast majority of our residents, even those living in Charleston, support The Mountaineers.

You do have two interstates going through there and another located nearby. That's a mixed blessing at best since they go through the town rather than around it, but not a lot of those folks actually stop in Charleston as they drive from Cleveland to Charlotte or Richmond to Lexington. The Pittsburgh to Charlotte folks bypass Charleston altogether via US 19. Cabelas might well change that to a degree, which is a definite plus. It certainly changed things in Wheeling.

Last edited by CTMountaineer; 09-21-2011 at 09:52 AM..
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