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Old 09-28-2017, 06:36 AM
 
Location: 304
4,981 posts, read 6,543,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
The space beside the Ordinance Center where the FMC Peroxide plant was is a likely site for this to be tried.
That is what I am referring to. There is plenty of land there, and it's arguably a better location. The problem with that site is cleaning it up from its FMC days. If that whole section could be cleaned up, Interstate Reality could pursue something similar to what THF (developers of Southridge/Dudley Farms/Trace Fork/Nitro Markertplace) tried a while back. They wanted to build a 200,000 shopping center with some medium sized anchors. Even if they only utilize part of that land, the rest should be developed as well. Prime Location!
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Old 09-28-2017, 07:45 PM
 
617 posts, read 363,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscross309 View Post
That is what I am referring to. There is plenty of land there, and it's arguably a better location. The problem with that site is cleaning it up from its FMC days. If that whole section could be cleaned up, Interstate Reality could pursue something similar to what THF (developers of Southridge/Dudley Farms/Trace Fork/Nitro Markertplace) tried a while back. They wanted to build a 200,000 shopping center with some medium sized anchors. Even if they only utilize part of that land, the rest should be developed as well. Prime Location!


The old ash pond is a huge site and would be bigger than any of the centers on Corridor G and while the location is prime it will be in the center of a nightmare once the new Davis Creek throughway begins construction. That said, such things eventually come to an end and then the problem that will not go away...who will become the main anchors for such a center?


Walmart, Target, Lowes, Kohls, Books-a-Million, Shoe Carnival, Sams, Ashley Furniture, Cabelas, Home Depot and Aldis will just be 3 to 5 minutes up the new road to Corridor G. So none of them will be moving. Worse, most of those outlets are already at the Nitro Marketplace just 15 minutes away in the other direction.


Kroger has a store across the street so we can probably count them out. In any case, Kroger in this area likes these dinky stores. When I lived in Cincinnati the Kroger stores there were bigger than Walmart or Target and one had two floors!


So who what retailers would move into a new center and act as the anchors? I can't think of anyone not already represented in a 15 minute radius. Remember that this new site is five to six times bigger than the current Riverwalk Mall and has enough room to hold every retailer I have just listed above.


If I were going to tackle this issue, I would develop an Outlet Mall at this location. West Virginia does not have one and the nearest ones are 200+ miles away. While A few across the country have failed, this segment of retailing centers has actually been growing. I would do everything in my power to lure an Ikea as the ONLY anchor and then build around a dozen or more of the larger common Outlet retailers and many smaller ones or even Mom and Pop retailers. Toss in a Walgreens and perhaps a small hotel and you have a good mix. Of course you want places to eat and there are some that need a presence in the Valley. These choices would not compete with the existing shopping centers, but might even feed each other being at opposite ends of the new throughway.
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Old 09-29-2017, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Martinsburg, West Virginia
987 posts, read 1,663,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caden Grace View Post
The old ash pond is a huge site and would be bigger than any of the centers on Corridor G and while the location is prime it will be in the center of a nightmare once the new Davis Creek throughway begins construction. That said, such things eventually come to an end and then the problem that will not go away...who will become the main anchors for such a center?


Walmart, Target, Lowes, Kohls, Books-a-Million, Shoe Carnival, Sams, Ashley Furniture, Cabelas, Home Depot and Aldis will just be 3 to 5 minutes up the new road to Corridor G. So none of them will be moving. Worse, most of those outlets are already at the Nitro Marketplace just 15 minutes away in the other direction.


Kroger has a store across the street so we can probably count them out. In any case, Kroger in this area likes these dinky stores. When I lived in Cincinnati the Kroger stores there were bigger than Walmart or Target and one had two floors!


So who what retailers would move into a new center and act as the anchors? I can't think of anyone not already represented in a 15 minute radius. Remember that this new site is five to six times bigger than the current Riverwalk Mall and has enough room to hold every retailer I have just listed above.


If I were going to tackle this issue, I would develop an Outlet Mall at this location. West Virginia does not have one and the nearest ones are 200+ miles away. While A few across the country have failed, this segment of retailing centers has actually been growing. I would do everything in my power to lure an Ikea as the ONLY anchor and then build around a dozen or more of the larger common Outlet retailers and many smaller ones or even Mom and Pop retailers. Toss in a Walgreens and perhaps a small hotel and you have a good mix. Of course you want places to eat and there are some that need a presence in the Valley. These choices would not compete with the existing shopping centers, but might even feed each other being at opposite ends of the new throughway.
I really like the outlet mall idea. I wonder if that would be the final nail in the coffin for CTC, though.
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Old 09-29-2017, 06:40 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,298 posts, read 10,394,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscross309 View Post
That is what I am referring to. There is plenty of land there, and it's arguably a better location. The problem with that site is cleaning it up from its FMC days. If that whole section could be cleaned up, Interstate Reality could pursue something similar to what THF (developers of Southridge/Dudley Farms/Trace Fork/Nitro Markertplace) tried a while back. They wanted to build a 200,000 shopping center with some medium sized anchors. Even if they only utilize part of that land, the rest should be developed as well. Prime Location!

It's already cleaned up. I may not be clean enough for houses, schools, & playgrounds, but it is ready for business building. The land is now as clean as the other FMC property where the Dodge/Kia dealership and the Rite-Aid store are now located.

I don't know for sure if this property is considered as one parcel with the former pond or if they are considered two parcels. I think this is the land for the proposed TIF financed development.
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:12 PM
 
617 posts, read 363,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
It's already cleaned up. I may not be clean enough for houses, schools, & playgrounds, but it is ready for business building. The land is now as clean as the other FMC property where the Dodge/Kia dealership and the Rite-Aid store are now located.

I don't know for sure if this property is considered as one parcel with the former pond or if they are considered two parcels. I think this is the land for the proposed TIF financed development.


I agree with you, everything I know about the parcel(s) is/are ready to go; even zoning is in place. I have been told that the primary issue is now one of water control because the entire property will use Davis Creek as a run off. At least two primary retention ponds will be needed and there is a great deal of concern that the development of this site and the relocation and expansion of the new throughway to replace Davis Creek and Jefferson Roads will add additional high volume impacts to the already over capacity flow rate of Davis Creek.


I expect that the Army Corps of Engineers has to weigh in on this if they have not already and I expect that the entire water shed is going to have to be developed from the railroad tracks to the river.
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:24 PM
 
1,575 posts, read 1,797,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caden Grace View Post
I agree with you, everything I know about the parcel(s) is/are ready to go; even zoning is in place. I have been told that the primary issue is now one of water control because the entire property will use Davis Creek as a run off. At least two primary retention ponds will be needed and there is a great deal of concern that the development of this site and the relocation and expansion of the new throughway to replace Davis Creek and Jefferson Roads will add additional high volume impacts to the already over capacity flow rate of Davis Creek.

I expect that the Army Corps of Engineers has to weigh in on this if they have not already and I expect that the entire water shed is going to have to be developed from the railroad tracks to the river.
I think it's a matter of constituents, not volume. Davis Creek is on the 303(d) list, so the DEP will want to limit runoff in the watershed to the Creek to mitigate biological impairments. Any number of best management practices and/or structural retention/detention can reduce this runoff and appease the DEP.

And the Corps - along with the US Fish and Wildlife Service, WV DEP (stormwater runoff permit), the Public Land Corp (DNR), and other regulatory agencies - will have to be consulted for these projects. There will be several hoops to jump through before this is cleared, environmentally (nothing insurmountable by any means, though).
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:54 PM
 
617 posts, read 363,623 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by elewis7 View Post
I think it's a matter of constituents, not volume. Davis Creek is on the 303(d) list, so the DEP will want to limit runoff in the watershed to the Creek to mitigate biological impairments. Any number of best management practices and/or structural retention/detention can reduce this runoff and appease the DEP.

And the Corps - along with the US Fish and Wildlife Service, WV DEP (stormwater runoff permit), the Public Land Corp (DNR), and other regulatory agencies - will have to be consulted for these projects. There will be several hoops to jump through before this is cleared, environmentally (nothing insurmountable by any means, though).


Thank you sir! You are more versed than I or those I spoke with about this subject, in this area.
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:07 PM
 
1,575 posts, read 1,797,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caden Grace View Post
Thank you sir! You are more versed than I or those I spoke with about this subject, in this area.
Ha, that's not normally the case! But when it comes to stormwater (and, specifically South Charleston's stormwater), I'm your guy.
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:23 AM
 
9,407 posts, read 11,474,617 times
Reputation: 1507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caden Grace View Post
The old ash pond is a huge site and would be bigger than any of the centers on Corridor G and while the location is prime it will be in the center of a nightmare once the new Davis Creek throughway begins construction. That said, such things eventually come to an end and then the problem that will not go away...who will become the main anchors for such a center?


Walmart, Target, Lowes, Kohls, Books-a-Million, Shoe Carnival, Sams, Ashley Furniture, Cabelas, Home Depot and Aldis will just be 3 to 5 minutes up the new road to Corridor G. So none of them will be moving. Worse, most of those outlets are already at the Nitro Marketplace just 15 minutes away in the other direction.


Kroger has a store across the street so we can probably count them out. In any case, Kroger in this area likes these dinky stores. When I lived in Cincinnati the Kroger stores there were bigger than Walmart or Target and one had two floors!


So who what retailers would move into a new center and act as the anchors? I can't think of anyone not already represented in a 15 minute radius. Remember that this new site is five to six times bigger than the current Riverwalk Mall and has enough room to hold every retailer I have just listed above.


If I were going to tackle this issue, I would develop an Outlet Mall at this location. West Virginia does not have one and the nearest ones are 200+ miles away. While A few across the country have failed, this segment of retailing centers has actually been growing. I would do everything in my power to lure an Ikea as the ONLY anchor and then build around a dozen or more of the larger common Outlet retailers and many smaller ones or even Mom and Pop retailers. Toss in a Walgreens and perhaps a small hotel and you have a good mix. Of course you want places to eat and there are some that need a presence in the Valley. These choices would not compete with the existing shopping centers, but might even feed each other being at opposite ends of the new throughway.
Some food for thought ... Here's what I believe to be missing from the analysis. I'm certainly no expert when it comes to building shopping centers, but I would think that developers would want to analyze all aspects of a market before launching into spending tens of millions of dollars. They would want to look at the character of the demographics, population trends, prospects for growth, and the sources of revenue for the underpinning population.

If a population is growing, and has factors in place that support continued growth, then a purely retail oriented presentation would be make sense. A static population would indicate that the customer base would have to be taken from existing resources, so location becomes a prime determiner for such a decision. Is this location such that it would divert people to use it instead of their current retail destinations?

If a population is static and of a more advanced age, would retail investment be the only likely choice? If I were in that position, I would try to be attracting investment in such things as healthcare centers. Those would appeal to a wide range of people, not only from the immediate area, but also from the surrounding area as well. Attracting a concentration of various sorts of healthcare providers would bring people to the area in a manner what actually supplements the current assets in place instead of displacing them. A place where people could shop for diverse medical, dental, physical therapy, chiropractic, and even legal services in one place might hold great potential in such a situation.
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Old 09-30-2017, 02:22 PM
 
617 posts, read 363,623 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
Some food for thought ... Here's what I believe to be missing from the analysis. I'm certainly no expert when it comes to building shopping centers, but I would think that developers would want to analyze all aspects of a market before launching into spending tens of millions of dollars. They would want to look at the character of the demographics, population trends, prospects for growth, and the sources of revenue for the underpinning population.

If a population is growing, and has factors in place that support continued growth, then a purely retail oriented presentation would be make sense. A static population would indicate that the customer base would have to be taken from existing resources, so location becomes a prime determiner for such a decision. Is this location such that it would divert people to use it instead of their current retail destinations?

If a population is static and of a more advanced age, would retail investment be the only likely choice? If I were in that position, I would try to be attracting investment in such things as healthcare centers. Those would appeal to a wide range of people, not only from the immediate area, but also from the surrounding area as well. Attracting a concentration of various sorts of healthcare providers would bring people to the area in a manner what actually supplements the current assets in place instead of displacing them. A place where people could shop for diverse medical, dental, physical therapy, chiropractic, and even legal services in one place might hold great potential in such a situation.



You are correct to point out the diverse dynamic of the project and you cover some of the core conditions, however there is one important element you left out: Regional Destination.


This shopping center will be a nexus of I-64 (which also connects to nearby I-77 and I-79; a rarity in the interstate system) as well as the south side expressway (MacCorkle Ave) and the new effective northern terminus for Corridor G. People driving up from Boone and Logan counties that work or have commercial business will continue to use the terminus downtown, but those shopping will stop first at the 5 shopping centers on Corridor G and then make the next stop in South Charleston/Spring Hill.


This has been going on for decades. Long before 4 lane highways families from the coal fields drove to Charleston on Saturday to do all of their retailing, just as those from Clay and Roane counties to the north did, those in Putnam to the west and Fayette and Raleigh counties to the east and south east.


Beckley has grown into a shopping hub and Putnam county has officially been placed in Huntington's although I have my doubts that that is effectively warranted. Of those I know living in Putnam only those down near Milton actually go to Ona, the rest drive east.


But, an Outlet Mall will draw for 100 miles and is not population dependent. You seldom see them in a highly populated area in fact.


The type of shopping center you are alluding too is called a Live Well Center. It has a section set aside for residential, usually condos, rental apartments and town homes. I do not think this location would be good for that. But the aging housing on Old MacCorkle would be an ideal location as there is a long strip there that borders the river along what is now called Riverside Drive. I could see a new Outlet Center rehabilitating all of the property from River Walk Mall west to Davis Creek. Fast-food chains on the MacCorkle frontage and residences along the riverfront.


Still I could see an extended stay hotel or something like a Hampton Inn going in there as well as perhaps a new store like Trader Joes or even Jungle Jims.


The intent of my idea is that the center is fed by a population of those living within a 90 minute drive as well as travelers going east-west and north-south thanks to the three interstates merging in the Charleston.
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