U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > West Virginia > Charleston
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-06-2018, 08:31 PM
 
335 posts, read 185,494 times
Reputation: 181

Advertisements

Those are all good ideas. If there was one more thing that I would like to add it would be that we grow UC as much and as fast as possible. The city should work with them on doing that. We need energy. We need the youth and the vibrancy that they bring. That school should have 5000 or more students by now. I think their enrollment sits basically now right about where it was in the 60's. Entertain the fact that at one time UC was playing big schools in football and winning bowl games. That seems like a fairytale today but was true at one time decades ago. Colleges in most places mean growth. We don't have a lot of industry or business that can grow but you sure can grow colleges.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-07-2018, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
1,247 posts, read 3,312,398 times
Reputation: 488
I think you bring up a lot of good points Caden and John.

Re: the city population decline- Maybe someone can elaborate on specific state statutes but I've always felt the state could pursue or further explore annexation practices in other growing cities/ states. Two of my siblings live in Columbus, a city that learned early on you cannot grow if you become landlocked by surrounding suburbs. One of the past mayors of Columbus made it a policy that if surrounding unincorporated communities wanted access to city water and sewer (something many of them could not afford to maintain on their own), they would need to agree to annexation by Columbus. The city has annexed a ton of territory in Franklin County over the years allowing it to continue strong growth while places like Cleveland have stagnated. Charlotte and Raleigh both annex surrounding rural areas aggressively. I also think there are way too many incorporated communities with less than 3,000 people in the Kanawha Valley that could be prime targets. I live in Virginia and you cannot even be organized as a 'city' without a certain population density. The Roanoke Valley is similar in size to Charleston and yet it has three incorporated entities- the City of Roanoke, the City of Salem and Town of Vinton. Everything else is unincorporated Roanoke County. I expect places like Charleston and South Charleston to be incorporated but Kanawha also has Belle, East Bank Cedar Grove, Marmet, Chelyan, Dunbar, Nitro, St. Albans, Clendenin...I'm sure I even missed a few. At one point Jefferson was incorporated! It makes no sense why on Earth you would need this many incorporated locations. All these people are already paying some sort of a town/ city tax, have mayors, police, fire, etc why can they not be consolidated into one or two larger entities?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2018, 06:15 PM
 
603 posts, read 349,637 times
Reputation: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVAmtneer82 View Post
I think you bring up a lot of good points Caden and John.

Re: the city population decline- Maybe someone can elaborate on specific state statutes but I've always felt the state could pursue or further explore annexation practices in other growing cities/ states. Two of my siblings live in Columbus, a city that learned early on you cannot grow if you become landlocked by surrounding suburbs. One of the past mayors of Columbus made it a policy that if surrounding unincorporated communities wanted access to city water and sewer (something many of them could not afford to maintain on their own), they would need to agree to annexation by Columbus. The city has annexed a ton of territory in Franklin County over the years allowing it to continue strong growth while places like Cleveland have stagnated. Charlotte and Raleigh both annex surrounding rural areas aggressively. I also think there are way too many incorporated communities with less than 3,000 people in the Kanawha Valley that could be prime targets. I live in Virginia and you cannot even be organized as a 'city' without a certain population density. The Roanoke Valley is similar in size to Charleston and yet it has three incorporated entities- the City of Roanoke, the City of Salem and Town of Vinton. Everything else is unincorporated Roanoke County. I expect places like Charleston and South Charleston to be incorporated but Kanawha also has Belle, East Bank Cedar Grove, Marmet, Chelyan, Dunbar, Nitro, St. Albans, Clendenin...I'm sure I even missed a few. At one point Jefferson was incorporated! It makes no sense why on Earth you would need this many incorporated locations. All these people are already paying some sort of a town/ city tax, have mayors, police, fire, etc why can they not be consolidated into one or two larger entities?


Nova,


The problem is as you outlined but the hurdle is the county commission. All of those places pay taxes to the county and not to the city of Charleston. Charleston has lost 3,415 from 2000 to 2014 (last official estimate) while Kanawha County has lost 7,082 in the same time frame. For every 2 people that moved out of Kanawha County one of them came from Charleston. The county is not going to give up revenue if it can help it and allowing the city of Charleston to annex and thus siphon off some of its tax base is a deal breaker for the county.


The county runs a scare campaign every time Charleston brings up the idea but to be honest, no one in Charleston has ever tried very hard. But, Joe Manchin vetoed a bill that would have merged Charleston and Kanawha County into a Charleston Metropolitan government. This veto was allegedly over an error in the bill because it referred to the wrong legal code - you have to wonder if that was sabotage. But, if it was something so simple to fix, the bill would have been reprocessed and passed - it was never taken up again. Passage of that bill would have put Charleston not only above the 50,000 federal benchmark but above the 100,000 benchmark, which is even better! The next benchmarks are 250,000, 500,000 and 1 million.


But you correctly point out that the city does have power it can bring to bear on the county residents. Charleston could exit all of the metro trappings such as 911 and the emergency services such as metro ambulance service. It could and likely would get ugly if egos got fired up enough, but I think the mere threat of this sort of battleground would see the county realize its day of monopoly are over. We will never know electing the type of mayors we have had since Hutchinson. The ones in the mix now are all worthless. Like our Republican GOP Senator hopefuls in the primary tomorrow, all of them are AWFUL. One is a criminal that lives in Nevada. The other two have been back and forth over the Democrat/Republican divide so many times I have lost count. They are all opportunists ready to live of our hopes.


I see no other way forward with annexation. The county will fight it and the mayors have been unwilling to do anything about it. Jones had 16 years and knew it was coming, I swear that man must be of French origins, he goes into a debate waving the white flag before anyone says hello.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2018, 07:56 PM
 
Location: 304
4,946 posts, read 6,472,226 times
Reputation: 1590
Well I have thought about this, and thought about this, and thought about this more.

Mayor Chriscross would be a bad admin for the city. I better stick with crazy ideas and pipe dreams! LOL

The obvious focus should be on job creation. Without it, no city large scale revitalization plan will come to fruition. An early push to re-develop Smith Street into a small Tech firm corridor might be a bold move. Power Park's completion and encouraging re purposing the warehouses into lofts and offices would start years ahead of the current timeline. Maybe some State offices would compliment the area. The demolition of Plaza East and some modern buildings erecting in its place. The city itself would lead the public/private drive for this. I could see a CAMC General expansion in that area as well.

Grocery Store on the East End would be a talking point that I would strive to accomplish. Hopefully with an effort to clean up Washington Street East ahead of schedule! I know that is asking a lot, but I hope that people would see the vision that it is becoming today.

I would work on plans for the Civic Center renovation, even if my tenure is unable to see the work accomplished!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2018, 06:04 AM
 
603 posts, read 349,637 times
Reputation: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscross309 View Post
Well I have thought about this, and thought about this, and thought about this more.

Mayor Chriscross would be a bad admin for the city. I better stick with crazy ideas and pipe dreams! LOL

The obvious focus should be on job creation. Without it, no city large scale revitalization plan will come to fruition. An early push to re-develop Smith Street into a small Tech firm corridor might be a bold move. Power Park's completion and encouraging re purposing the warehouses into lofts and offices would start years ahead of the current timeline. Maybe some State offices would compliment the area. The demolition of Plaza East and some modern buildings erecting in its place. The city itself would lead the public/private drive for this. I could see a CAMC General expansion in that area as well.

Grocery Store on the East End would be a talking point that I would strive to accomplish. Hopefully with an effort to clean up Washington Street East ahead of schedule! I know that is asking a lot, but I hope that people would see the vision that it is becoming today.

I would work on plans for the Civic Center renovation, even if my tenure is unable to see the work accomplished!

I have to disagree with your personal assessment. You dream; sometimes big, always out of the box. That is the one quality no mayor has had since Hutchinson.


Like you, I am of mixed feelings on Plaza East. I see it as a good idea but in a bad location. A shopping center on the East End has to front on Washington Street.


The problem is that there is no real choice to do something like that without tearing down a lot of houses and to be honest, the city needs residents more than it needs a new shopping center even if it comes with an East End grocery. The only site that has the minimum size is the one across the street from Moses Auto next to Rite Aid. It would involve the least displacements - 2 businesses, 3 houses and one run down apartment building with 4 units.


But, that site would only just be large enough for a store like Kroger with the gas station, leaving the other end for Rite Aid. Kroger has already said they failed in this part of town and I do not see them coming in with out other stores to act as a combined lure.


Another site that might work, but it would involve a lot more demolition and displacement is that odd sort of area behind McDonalds where Washington Street bends around to Piedmont. It is right next to the off ramps for I-64 but the area would be bound the railroad tracks, Elizabeth Street, Greenbrier and McClung. Even if you took out McClung and removed those houses there, you would still not have much of a foot print. it would still be an odd area to reach and I am not sure how attractive it would be to highway travelers in an area where the visual image matters.


It may be that there is no choice but to line Washington Street with stand-alone strip malls and hope some off-brand grocer comes in like Aldi and settles on the Rite Aid location. The old Plaza East just needs to convert to something besides shopping, it does not work in that capacity any more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-09-2018, 06:24 AM
 
335 posts, read 185,494 times
Reputation: 181
I would think that Aldi would be a great fit. As much as I would love a TJ’s I don’t think it will ever happen here. I honesty think it could happen and work but the local pol’s don’t want to work to make it happen. Aldi would offer good prices and food for that area.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2018, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
97 posts, read 83,219 times
Reputation: 47
one of the most basic of needs for Charleston to have any chance of growing its population in the inner core is new housing units. The recent announcements of the conversion of both the Union Building and the Atlas building to loft type apartments/condos is very encouraging. If United Bank was ever persuaded to build a new national headquarters tower in downtown, their old building could easily be converted to condos and upscale housing. The bottom floors could even be resold to another bank......keeping the lobby, drive in windows, vaults etc for the new tenant and adding another high profile bank to the downtown core. Every city across America big and small is seeing a huge demand for urban upscale housing in the inner city core where residents have parking and are able to walk to work, restaurants, cultural venues, shopping, etc. Of course Charleston is again bringing up the rear.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2018, 05:32 PM
 
335 posts, read 185,494 times
Reputation: 181
You are spot on. Charleston has a wonderfully sized downtown urban footprint. You would think that this would be a major plus in attracting people that want to live in that type of setting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2018, 08:10 PM
 
603 posts, read 349,637 times
Reputation: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRWMSPPGH View Post
one of the most basic of needs for Charleston to have any chance of growing its population in the inner core is new housing units. The recent announcements of the conversion of both the Union Building and the Atlas building to loft type apartments/condos is very encouraging. If United Bank was ever persuaded to build a new national headquarters tower in downtown, their old building could easily be converted to condos and upscale housing. The bottom floors could even be resold to another bank......keeping the lobby, drive in windows, vaults etc for the new tenant and adding another high profile bank to the downtown core. Every city across America big and small is seeing a huge demand for urban upscale housing in the inner city core where residents have parking and are able to walk to work, restaurants, cultural venues, shopping, etc. Of course Charleston is again bringing up the rear.

It hasn't always brought up the rear and that means it doesn't have to. Take away the Embassy Suites and the new Federal Building and everything you see downtown was built out of the Hutchinson terms that ended in 1980. Some of them did not complete until 1983 or 1984 but the ground work was lain in the 1970's. We have had no leadership like that since those days. 35 years have passed, more should have happened besides a squatty hotel, out of proportion federal building and maybe - its a reach - Haddad Riverfront park, which is just a redo of the old Levee.


Late addition: Clay Center is new but it too was started in the 1970's I had a friend who ran the planetarium there and they worked for years to secure the money for before moving from Sunrise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2018, 08:29 PM
 
335 posts, read 185,494 times
Reputation: 181
As you mention Hampton Inn I was looking at the hotel tonight up at Southridge. It looks like they never completed the exterior renovation. The hotel has these weird white panels all over the outside that look like they were primed for painting and never finished. That has to be the oddest looking Hampton I’ve ever seen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > West Virginia > Charleston
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top