Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
At the least if we had to spend the money on transportation, instead of a rice-a-roni trolley, I'd use the money to expand light rail from either the north or the south into Charlotte (ie Huntersville-Charlotte or Monroe-Charlotte)....
At the least if we had to spend the money on transportation, instead of a rice-a-roni trolley, I'd use the money to expand light rail from either the north or the south into Charlotte (ie Huntersville-Charlotte or Monroe-Charlotte)....
just an absolute joke....
It sure is. The report is that the $25M is to start the project; the other $450M the city has to come up with.
I just gotta ask: is this Mayor completely out of touch? And the council members? Where are we gonna get $450M to finish the project? We can't meet our budget as it is - we are in the red already!
Is there something I am missing here - about some new national policy - that municipalities are to just spend, spend, spend -- with no plan (other than raising taxes!) to get budgets balanced? We have infrastructure needs in this city - and you are right, Jack. If we were gonna invest $$ into transit, why is the lightrail sitting there unfinished? Instead, we accept $25M to start a project that we can't hope to finish for decades?
I am baffled.
Turn the fricking $25M down, folks! Would you take money from your parents if you knew they had borrowed the money to give it to you - and then were expecting you to pay it back over 30 years? That is what this is! The treasury is busted . . . the federal gov't is borrowing money from China, Dubai, Japan, etc . . . and somehow, we the tax-payers are supposed to "sometime in the future" create enough revenue to get the coffers flush again. Instead, this Administration continues to hand out money like it is candy, further driving us into the hole.
This is progress? It isn't even tax-and-spend! It's borrow and spend with no concern for tomorrow. At least with "tax-and-spend" you are raising the revenue as you go. What this Administration is doing is insane. And our city officials aren't leaders. Well, I guess they are leaders . . . they are leading us to fiscal ruin.
I don't know that this is a project that "has" to be finished. It can be done in sections...you can certainly question the value of a 1.5 mile line that will be no faster than a bus, but there are people who would take a train but not a bus.
I don't know that this is a project that "has" to be finished. It can be done in sections...you can certainly question the value of a 1.5 mile line that will be no faster than a bus, but there are people who would take a train but not a bus.
So are you saying you feel this is the best use of funds in this city?
I think they are throwing all kinds of numbers at us to make us confused. I've read $500 million, $450 million, and now this morning on NPR they said it was only $47 million, minus the $25 million from the government. Any way you slice it, it's one of the dumbest things I have ever heard of. Too bad we can't vote on it, because it would go down in flames.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack
At the least if we had to spend the money on transportation, instead of a rice-a-roni trolley, I'd use the money to expand light rail from either the north or the south into Charlotte (ie Huntersville-Charlotte or Monroe-Charlotte)....
just an absolute joke....
Jack, you're right. If there's flexibility, take the money & expand light rail on the north end (unless Pineville has changed their minds). At least that would provide some construction jobs, expanding the tracks & constructing a station.
I think they are throwing all kinds of numbers at us to make us confused. I've read $500 million, $450 million, and now this morning on NPR they said it was only $47 million, minus the $25 million from the government. Any way you slice it, it's one of the dumbest things I have ever heard of. Too bad we can't vote on it, because it would go down in flames.
I just found a very interesting blog from someone here in Charlotte (no, it isn't mine!) who suggests that our Mayor is copying DC's Mayor, who pushed for streetcars in DC.
I was ignorant of this project in DC. I think streetcars there could make sense b/c they have a very robust transit system.
WE DO NOT.
Check out the video from CNN to see an explanation of the DC streetcar project.
Jack, you're right. If there's flexibility, take the money & expand light rail on the north end (unless Pineville has changed their minds). At least that would provide some construction jobs, expanding the tracks & constructing a station.
I agree with that.
But the thing is . . . this was an award from the Fed Gubment and earmarked for the streetcar project.
So either we turn the money down (as it obligates this city to a huge project that we can't afford at this time) or we take the money and get ourselves embroiled in construction that is going to create a mile of track and sit there, for years (decades?), since we don't have the money here to finish it.
Too bad we can't use the money where it would actually be meaningful transit improvement - LYNX.
I don't think this is Foxx trying to copy DC, because the history of this pre-dates him as Mayor. Here is a quick summary:
Around 1996 or so, leaders in the county started to investigate a transit corridor running North/South. 1/2 of it is built the Lynx line, the other 1/2 was supposed to be the commuter rail going to Mooresville.
When they cooked up the plan to get the 1/2 cent transit tax approved, they had to present a grandiose plan to the voters that showed if they approved the tax, they would get this plan. It was originally called the 2020 plan.
The 2020 plan showed the 5 transit corridors, but with many more travel modes than now. BRT, LRT, CR, street cars, etc.
Originally there were two streetcar lines proposed. One that runs from Beatties Fd. Rd to Eastland mall, and a circle line that would essentially run in a circle downtown.
All of the above assumed federal funding of at least 50% and state funding of 25% and the rest coming from the transit tax.
The realities of federal funding hit them in the face. Hence the 2025 plan and the 2030 plan. The circle streetcar line had been removed along with a lot of other stuff.
CATS & the city later found out that the streetcar line, the one we are talking about now, stood no chance of getting any federal funding. The feds don't like to fund streetcars as they don't consider them cost effective. Furthermore, CATS could not produce the ridership numbers that showed significant improvement over much less expensive buses.
The streetcar line was quietly dropped from the 2030 plan, but the city decided that it would still build the thing, albeit in pieces.
The reason that it is significant that it was dropped from the 2030 plan is that means the transit tax can't be used to build it. As long as it was reliant on the transit tax, the other towns in the county would not agree to build the streetcar until everything else in the plan was built. Hence the movers and shakers in Charlotte didn't like this, and it got pulled.
What the 25 million will cover is a portion going from downtown through CPCC and into Elizabeth (very politically important). This is why the price tag is coming up around $50M. The cost to build the entire line is ~$500M if you can believe their estimates. Their estimates in the past have been woefully low.
The 2030 plan, BTW is effectively dead. None of the plans in it meet any federal cost effectiveness requirements given the way that CATS has it designed.
No plans however to stop collecting the transit tax.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
I agree with that.
But the thing is . . . this was an award from the Fed Gubment and earmarked for the streetcar project.
So either we turn the money down (as it obligates this city to a huge project that we can't afford at this time) or we take the money and get ourselves embroiled in construction that is going to create a mile of track and sit there, for years (decades?), since we don't have the money here to finish it.
Too bad we can't use the money where it would actually be meaningful transit improvement - LYNX.
They need to turn it down, Ani. I loved your link to the blog. How dumb can you get? DC & Baltimore both have newer mass transit systems. They've been around for a while, but guess where they looked to when they developed their systems? Yup, the big brother of the region. Philly.
My guess is that Foxx is running back & forth to DC & not Philly, because the current mayor of Philly, Michael Nutter, is a very conservative man, & he'd be telling Foxx to go back to Charlotte & do the nuts & bolts things. Work on bringing in jobs, & expand the infrastructure that's already there.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
