U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Merry Christmas!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 07-01-2011, 12:09 PM
 
399 posts, read 253,259 times
Reputation: 130

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
I agree that it's better than sitting at a red left turn arrow, but isn't it still essentially the same thing as the circular green light???
NO.

It is the same for the left turn driver.

But it is very different for drivers who are not turning left.

Quote:
But from some of these posts it sounds like people are saying you can have the flashing yellow arrow at the same time traffic coming from the same direction as you but going straight has a red light. I have never noticed this.
Yes. The signals facing the same direction can have flashing yellow arrow for the left turn, and circular red for the straight and right.

This is impossible to do using a circular green.

If you are using mostly intersections that had the old Michigan red, you won't see this. They usually change both signals at the same time.

But this capability is precisely what allows all of the advantages:

- Preventing yellow trap
- Less wasted intersection time
- The use of lead-lag phasing
- Progressed green lights along more two-way streets
- Saving gasoline
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-02-2011, 06:31 AM
 
3,539 posts, read 3,470,669 times
Reputation: 1540
Got ya. And yes I do like saving gasoline
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-03-2011, 11:10 AM
 
308 posts, read 330,119 times
Reputation: 276
The first thing I read yesterday when I got back to town was this thread. Afterwards I drove from my place in Huntersville to Cornelus. I came to the blinking yellow arrow and in front of me was a car from Florida. There was no oncoming traffic, yet the individual didn't know what to do. I gave a little toot on my horn but didn't push the issue.

These arrows take a bit of getting used to, but after one is able to understand their purpose, they are a good thing. I am glad they are around, but unfortunately, they are confusing at first.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2011, 08:15 AM
 
399 posts, read 253,259 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by newcomerfromuk View Post
The first thing I read yesterday when I got back to town was this thread. Afterwards I drove from my place in Huntersville to Cornelus. I came to the blinking yellow arrow and in front of me was a car from Florida. There was no oncoming traffic, yet the individual didn't know what to do. I gave a little toot on my horn but didn't push the issue.

These arrows take a bit of getting used to, but after one is able to understand their purpose, they are a good thing. I am glad they are around, but unfortunately, they are confusing at first.
Florida just got the flashing yellow arrows in June. So there will be an adjusting period.

There are still 10 states with no installed flashing yellow arrows. The state versions of the MUTCD (Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices) have not yet been updated to contain them:

Hawaii
Indiana (It's in the law, but not yet in the InDOT version of the MUTCD)
Massachusetts*
Nebraska
North Dakota
Ohio (It's in the law, but not in the field)
Pennsylvania (They don't seem to want it)*
Rhode Island
Tennessee
West Virginia

* Has never fully complied with the USDOT MUTCD.

In addition, there are some flashing yellow arrows installed in New York, even though the state has neither passed a law defining it as a yield nor included it in the state MUTCD.

Last edited by Troubleshooter; 07-06-2011 at 08:17 AM.. Reason: sentence frag
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2011, 07:52 PM
 
399 posts, read 253,259 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time2Travel View Post
^Fixed that for ya. The flashing yellow arrow should never have been used. It's a replacement for a ball indicator that is not confusing and does not imply that someone has a protected turn.

The arrow is used to indicate right of way. It indicates right of way when it's green and it indicates right of way when it's red. Some (not all) are going to think that a yellow ARROW gives them right of way which might cause an accident. Since there is no NEED for the arrow it needs to be removed. Nobody has a problem with the fact that it's a blinking yellow light. The problem is the arrow. Get rid of it, problem solved.
You BROKE it. Put it back the way it was.

It was correct before you "fixed it". Now it is wrong, and is telling drivers they have a protected clearance when they do not. I have been misquoted by your meddling.

You are trying to change what the federal government has done, not what I want. I am just reporting the new government standard.

If you don't understand it, don't give wrong information. And don't edit my posts to make it look like I gave out the wrong and dangerous information.

The flashing yellow arrow is not just a replacement for the ball green. That's what the ignorant politicians who do not understand it say.

The flashing yellow arrow is the same as the green ball for left turners. But it has a very different meaning for those who are NOT turning left. THIS is the reason the flashing yellow arrow is replacing the green ball for left turns at some signals.

The green ball can not be shown to left turning traffic without also giving the right of way to straight ahead and right turning traffic. This is why the green ball is often dangerous. It causes yellow trap, but cutting off the left turning traffic at the WRONG TIME.

The flashing yellow arrow can give permissive right of way to left turning traffic when the straight ahead traffic must be stopped. It separates the timing for the left turn from the timing for the straight ahead movement, allowing each one to end at a time when it is safe to do so.

This total separation of right of way is what is necessary to prevent the yellow trap. The exclusively protected signal prevents yellow trap by not allowing permissive turns. Now a safe way to allow permissive turns is available with the flashing yellow arrow. But it can't be done with the circular green.

I repeat the CORRECT current meanings as given by the Federal Highway Administration:

- A steady green arrow gives a protected turn, free from all conflicts except turns on red.

- A flashing yellow arrow gives a permissive turn, made through gaps in oncoming traffic. It gives no permissions to traffic not turning in the direction of the arrow, so it can release the turning movement alone.

- A steady circular green gives a permissive turn, made through gaps in oncoming traffic. It also gives a privileged straight ahead movement. The problem with it is that it also releases traffic moving in other directions, so it can't be used to release just the turning movement (the real reason we need the flashing yellow arrow).

- A flashing circular yellow gives a privileged right of way, but not free from conflict, for those moving straight ahead. It gives a permissive turn, made through gaps in oncoming traffic. (For turns, it means the same as the flashing yellow arrow, but it also gives other permissions to other traffic.)

- A steady circular yellow gives privileged clearance not free from conflict for only straight ahead traffic. It gives a permissive clearance for turning traffic, which must still wait for straight ahead traffic from the opposite direction to clear. (Note that if the oncoming signal stays green, the result is the yellow trap hazard.)

- A steady yellow arrow gives privileged clearance free from conflict, only when it follows a steady green arrow.

- A steady yellow arrow gives permissive clearance for turning traffic when it follows a flashing yellow arrow, because the opposing circular indication is also yellow at the same time. Thus, those clearing from a flashing yellow arrow must still wait for straight ahead traffic from the opposite direction to clear. (This is exactly like the steady circular yellow, except that a circular yellow is not allowed to be shown in that direction at that time.) This is now the federal standard.

- Flashing red (circular or arrow) means stop, and proceed when the way is clear.

- Steady red (circular or arrow) means stop and stay, unless turns are permitted on red.

-------

Now, look at what we miss out on if we don't have the flashing yellow arrow:

- We lose freedom from the yellow trap hazard without the flashing yellow arrow. The flashing yellow arrow can continue to flash after the straight ahead signal turns yellow and red. It flashes until the oncoming circular green ends. Without it, a signal that skips the cross street causes yellow trap without special preventative measures.

- We lose the lead-lag left turn sequence with permissive turns. Without the flashing yellow arrow, all lead-lag sequences have to stop turning traffic with red arrows, except when released for protected turns. The circular green permissive turn used in a lead-lag signal causes yellow trap on every cycle, so it is banned.

- We lose green light progression (the signals turn green as you come to them) on many two-way streets that could have it with the flashing yellow arrow. The lead-lag sequence is needed to make this progression possible. And only the flashing yellow arrow makes the lead-lag sequence work with permissive turns.

- We lose the gasoline savings the flashing yellow arrow gives us from the decreased idling time at intersections (left turns have more time to turn through gaps).

- We lose the gasoline savings from the green light progression on many streets that could have it. Without the flashing yellow arrow, there is no green light progression on those streets. It can't be done.

Last edited by Troubleshooter; 07-11-2011 at 08:04 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-11-2011, 08:11 PM
 
399 posts, read 253,259 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
This is what confused me--that they have both a steady yellow arrow and a flashing yellow arrow, but they can mean two different things. I think I've only seen the steady yellow arrow just after the green arrow, which would mean you still have the right of way (for now), correct?

But yes, a yellow does mean caution. But in most instances (as far as traffic lights are concerned), if you have a yellow (circular) light or are going through a flashing yellow (circular) light, you still have the right of way. So it's certainly reasonable for someone to think that a flashing yellow arrow would mean you still have the right of way as well. But obviously that's not the case.

And as has been said, the flashing yellow arrow is basically the same thing as the steady green circular light. I guess some people thought a green circular light meant they could turn left without yielding to oncoming traffic, but some people may think the same thing about the flashing yellow arrow...so what makes the flashing yellow arrow any better than the green circular light?
Wrong. That's just what the politicians who don't understand it say.

The real purpose is to allow the permissive turn while the circular signals are red. The circular green can't do that without also releasing the straight ahead movement.

The flashing yellow arrow releases only the turning movement for permissive turns. it has no meaning for traffic moving in other directions.

The circular green releases other movements at the same time it releases the permissive turn.

The difference between flashing yellow arrow and steady circular green is in the meaning given to people who are NOT turning.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2011, 12:33 AM
 
Location: NC
329 posts, read 302,124 times
Reputation: 160
People are still having trouble with this? I, for once, commend whoever came up with this. Its a great idea. Kind of surprising as it lets people actually use their head, which is usually more and more taken from us these days.

Flashing yellow with an arrow means you can turn when its safe (when there isn't oncoming traffic, if I have to fill in the blanks). Nothing more, nothing less. It fixes the problem of idling at a red right when there is no oncoming traffic. Thumbs up here.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2011, 04:10 PM
 
399 posts, read 253,259 times
Reputation: 130
Let's try to make this simple:

The purpose of the flashing yellow arrow is not to make the indication clearer for left turners.

The purpose of the flashing yellow arrow is to change the indication given to those who are not turning left.

The circular green releases other movements besides the permissive left turn.

The flashing yellow arrow does not.

So the flashing yellow arrow works where there is a need to release a permissive turn while the circular signals are red. The circular green can't do this.


And a steady yellow, circular or arrow, means to stop doing what you were doing before. No protected movement is implied.

Last edited by Troubleshooter; 07-13-2011 at 04:18 PM.. Reason: clarity
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2012, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Lake Norman, NC
5,954 posts, read 6,915,011 times
Reputation: 27609
Good for MD & PA! I am still against the FYA as it is used today because it is still confusing to many motorists. I had to sit in a line of 5 cars the other day because the first car would not turn on the FYA, even with no traffic coming the other way. I finally laid on my horn from 5 cars back and the guy in front of me threw his arms up like I was crazy.

I also disagree with this scenario. I'm heading eastbound on a four lane road and the light turns red for all east/west traffic. There are cars waiting to go straight and left in both directions. After the cross traffic light turns red, the westbound lanes of my road get a solid green for thru traffic and a green arrow for the left turn lanes. My westbound side stays red for thru traffic, but the left turn lane gets an FYA.

My thought is that left turn lanes should stay red until the through lanes get their solid green, then have the FYA come on simultaneously.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2012, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
7,389 posts, read 3,740,062 times
Reputation: 2662
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Reading through this whole thread is a perfect example of people making things out to be more difficult then they really are.
Yep. The first time I encountered a yellow arrow I hesitated for a slight second because I didn't expect it and then waited for traffic to clear then turned left. Not sure why its confusing to some people.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $89,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top