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Old 12-01-2010, 09:08 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,898 posts, read 27,173,603 times
Reputation: 8966

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryTwist View Post
Zero Hedge is a very good read and I highly recommend it. You have this completely wrong however. Dollars are "technically" borrowed by the federal government when the US Treasury sells taxpayer backed US notes through the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve then prints the dollars and hands it back to the Federal Government. The people and governments who bought this paper take the risk and are paid interest for it. The failure of the fiat money system is this interest component requires the central bank to introduce inflation to cover it. Inflation in this context means to make each dollar worth less.

The US government doesn't have to borrow anything however. The US Treasury has full legislative authority to print it's own money but it hasn't done so since 1971. These dollars are still in circulation but mostly held by collectors because their numismatic value is worth more than the face value. (These dollars will have US Bank Note printed on them instead of Federal Reserve Note) The reason they don't is this money has constitutional restraints on it that would require the government to essentially balance it's budget or raise taxes. Politicians support the Federal Reserve instead because it allows them to spend money without raising taxes. The downside is that it destroys the economy. No manner of "stimulus", which really means we take wealth from one segment and hand it to another by printing money, will fix it.

Banking regulations were established 70+ years ago to insure there were restrictions which prevent this bad system from being abused. Over the last 10 - 15 years these restrictions were voted out of existence, and now we have too big to fail, huge bank holding companies where the executives pay themselves huge bonues for gaming the system by taking risks where the consequences are borne by the common working person. Charlotte has been living an illusion of great economic power based solely on the corporate industry behind this debacle. The entire thing is unraveling like a ball made of tightly stretched rubber bands where one has broken.
Banks were regulated after The Great Depression, to prevent it from happening again. Banks were deregulated as part of Reagonomics, when phones (Ma Bell) the broadcasting industry, & banks were deregulated.

Much of what has gone on since then flies in the face of the Sherman Anti-trust Act. Our Documents - Sherman Anti-Trust Act (1890)

Things are moving in a positive direction in Gaston & Cleveland Counties. Many would prefer it to be faster, but it's moving ahead, with a goal of economic diversification. Cabbarrus & Iredell seem to be moving ahead. It appears that Charlotte is aiming for diversification.

This mess didn't happen overnight & it won't be fixed overnight. I speak, regularly, with people in other areas, & those areas are in much worse condition that this area. That doesn't mean that some areas are not doing better.

Bailouts were not the extent of the recovery. NC has put most of the federal stimulus money into state funds so that communities can (to use an old term) pull themselves up by their bootstraps. It's working here.
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:32 AM
 
171 posts, read 277,518 times
Reputation: 95
The high profile Gaston and Cleveland job announcements came with millions of stimulus dollars. Yet...... Economies simply don't recover by the government taking wealth from one segment and giving it to another. This is what stimulus amounts to. Stimulus gets votes, it doesn't create real sustainable jobs.

When did we as a country decide to let the government pick business winners and losers rather than let the free market handle it? More interestingly, why have people become so dull in their thinking, they actually believe it works?

As for the idiotic media the OP posted this topic about, lets remember that at the end of 2008 the Charlotte Observer and all the TV outlets paraded an endless number of "economists" that said we would be in full recovery in the second 1/2 of 2010. Where are these guys now?
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:45 AM
 
277 posts, read 580,276 times
Reputation: 223
Always good to hear the latest from our local "expert"



High Point Enterprise - Top economist says improvement gradual at best (http://www.hpe.com/view/full_story/10221756/article-Top-economist-says-improvement-gradual-at-best - broken link)


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Old 12-01-2010, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Union County
5,783 posts, read 8,417,724 times
Reputation: 4818
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryTwist View Post
The high profile Gaston and Cleveland job announcements came with millions of stimulus dollars. Yet...... Economies simply don't recover by the government taking wealth from one segment and giving it to another. This is what stimulus amounts to. Stimulus gets votes, it doesn't create real sustainable jobs.

When did we as a country decide to let the government pick business winners and losers rather than let the free market handle it? More interestingly, why have people become so dull in their thinking, they actually believe it works?

As for the idiotic media the OP posted this topic about, lets remember that at the end of 2008 the Charlotte Observer and all the TV outlets paraded an endless number of "economists" that said we would be in full recovery in the second 1/2 of 2010. Where are these guys now?
lol @ millions of dollars... It's like the change under your sofa cushions to these people.

BofA is insolvent, only proven more by the bailout data The Fed released today. Which I doubt any MSM will report about. It plays to your point on the government picking the winners and losers - why Lehman vs. AIG? WAMU, Wachovia - cherry picked by the "system". I think BofA's biggest blatant issue is the Countrywide mess - when the putbacks start en force then it's going to really stretch TBTF and what that means.

I personally don't consider what I'm writing about to be doom and gloom at the level of leaving Charlotte. I put my kids on the school bus every day... If anything would or should change is that these "bankers" and "investors" finally take a haircut instead of putting all the risk and downside on the backs of the middle class. We're going to see record bonuses for those folks this year and I think it's plain criminal. Yet, how do I fight that corrupt system and not ultimately hurt the Charlotte area when so much of the "money" from BofA (i.e. jobs) drives the economy of this area? I honestly don't know.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:25 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,898 posts, read 27,173,603 times
Reputation: 8966
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryTwist View Post
The high profile Gaston and Cleveland job announcements came with millions of stimulus dollars. Yet...... Economies simply don't recover by the government taking wealth from one segment and giving it to another. This is what stimulus amounts to. Stimulus gets votes, it doesn't create real sustainable jobs.

When did we as a country decide to let the government pick business winners and losers rather than let the free market handle it? More interestingly, why have people become so dull in their thinking, they actually believe it works?

As for the idiotic media the OP posted this topic about, lets remember that at the end of 2008 the Charlotte Observer and all the TV outlets paraded an endless number of "economists" that said we would be in full recovery in the second 1/2 of 2010. Where are these guys now?
Gaston & Cleveland County job announcements cost millions? Depends on how you look at them. 3 restaurants in Kings Mountain & one in Gastonia are involved. Millions there? Hardly, not even added together. Plus some of those incentives are locked in & the money is not dispersed until the businesses are up & running.

Freightliner brought back 100 people. Those were good jobs & stimulus money was not involved.

The power plant down by Grover, If stimulus money was involved, it wasn't much at all. The steel tubing manufacturer in Kings Mountain? Not much there either. The paper plant in Shelby? Not really, but some nice tax breaks for them. With 250 permanent jobs, that will certainly pay for itself soon enough. The Duke Power training facility in Kings Mountain? Not sure on that one, but it has major ramifications for the community. The data center? There was a lot of incentive there, but the competition was stiff, because even with tax breaks & incentives, these things are cash cows for property taxes. The officials are in talks with some other companies to go on that land. As the state & local officials get data centers etc. onto that land, not only are they putting construction people back to work, which filters through the local economy, but the businesses provide a tax base which will allow the local officials to self-fund incentives to get more businesses in to provide more jobs.

There have been several other instances, locally, where stimulus money was involved. Very small amounts were involved but each required that some jobs would be produced.

There is a plan. Is this throwing good money after bad? No. Is it going to solve everything over night? No way.

Last edited by southbound_295; 12-01-2010 at 12:12 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:23 PM
 
1,111 posts, read 1,687,444 times
Reputation: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbo View Post
Economy threads always bring out the doom and gloomers.

What do you guys suggest? Moving out of Charlotte before it turns into Detroit? Bury our money in jars in the yard?

Charlotte is going to be fine. The banking industry is going to be fine. Is it going to happen overnight? No.
You are so right, Gumbo! It doesn't matter how these jobs are created IMHO, just as long as something is being done to create those jobs in order to get people back to work and thus, bringing those unemployment #'s down to where it once was, something is better than nothing! And for all the doom and gloomers, are you creating any jobs? You can look @ all of the negatives all you want, but the fact of the matter is, jobs are starting to open up again, it isn't as bad as it was a year ago, albeit, it's still not back to where it once was, either! IMO, the glass is half full!
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:54 PM
 
171 posts, read 277,518 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by prwfromnc View Post
You are so right, Gumbo! It doesn't matter how these jobs are created IMHO, just as long as something is being done to create those jobs in order to get people back to work and thus, bringing those unemployment #'s down to where it once was, something is better than nothing! And for all the doom and gloomers, are you creating any jobs? You can look @ all of the negatives all you want, but the fact of the matter is, jobs are starting to open up again, it isn't as bad as it was a year ago, albeit, it's still not back to where it once was, either! IMO, the glass is half full!
PWC, Hitler & Joseph Stalin put millions of people to work. It does matter how it is done. As for your claim that jobs are coming back, they are not. Where are your facts?

As for the statement "what have you done to create jobs"? More than 1/2 of my salary each week is taken away by the state and federal government which is given to others. Even more is taken by the local government in a multitude of additional taxes. Should I be handing over 75%, maybe 100% so that the government can create a false economy to employ others? How much more do you suggest they take from working people to "create jobs". I ask again, when, did we as a nation, put so much dependence on the government to solve our problems?
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Pixley
3,521 posts, read 2,235,522 times
Reputation: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryTwist View Post
PWC, Hitler & Joseph Stalin put millions of people to work. It does matter how it is done. As for your claim that jobs are coming back, they are not. Where are your facts?

As for the statement "what have you done to create jobs"? More than 1/2 of my salary each week is taken away by the state and federal government which is given to others. Even more is taken by the local government in a multitude of additional taxes. Should I be handing over 75%, maybe 100% so that the government can create a false economy to employ others? How much more do you suggest they take from working people to "create jobs". I ask again, when, did we as a nation, put so much dependence on the government to solve our problems?
Sorry, can't resist - as George Burns would say - "More than half Graice?"

Otherwise you are right - where the money comes from to create jobs does matter.
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Old 12-01-2010, 05:33 PM
 
4,677 posts, read 8,034,945 times
Reputation: 1235
Default Sometimes you just can't win

Well, as usual. What would have been a positive thread for the turnaround of Charlotte's economy has been taken over by doom and gloomers and so many pessimists. I guess maybe we should just expel the federal government, get rid of taxes, make the stimulus illegal, try legislators who supported it for war crimes, and revert to the yeoman system.
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Near the water
8,231 posts, read 11,589,094 times
Reputation: 3877
Quote:
Originally Posted by adavi215 View Post
Well, as usual. What would have been a positive thread for the turnaround of Charlotte's economy has been taken over by doom and gloomers and so many pessimists. I guess maybe we should just expel the federal government, get rid of taxes, make the stimulus illegal, try legislators who supported it for war crimes, and revert to the yeoman system.


There is no turn around right now.......BofA is about to lay off quite a few in the IT department and that will not be good. And if this wikileaks comes through then that could be very bad for BofA as well, as I suspect it will be.

Get rid of taxes? Why not, most of the population can't pay them as they aren't employed.
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