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Old 03-08-2011, 03:59 PM
 
48 posts, read 74,735 times
Reputation: 24

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains View Post
Get a grip

We are all sorry for the difficulties you are having with a handful of people in your neighborhood. That sucks, it really does.

But Jack is 1000% right and nothing he has said is "hurtful".

He makes excellent points that the vast majority of people in HOA's are very happy with the way theirs is run. I am in my 4th neighborhood in 25 years with an HOA and I would never live in a neighborhood without one.

You are in a very unusual situation and I hope it gets remedied legally for you, but in no way is your experience the norm like you keep implying.
Get a GRIP????? You are JUST as hurtful if not MORESO!!
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Old 03-08-2011, 04:22 PM
 
Location: NC
128 posts, read 431,365 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Yeah they are such great institutions that "choice" is determined by your legislature which mandates them for newer subdivisions. Kinda reveals the myth behind your "choice" claims. If you have a growing population, a significant portion of them will have no choice but to live in HOA-burdened property because that is all that is allowed to be built by your own admission. Calling that "choice" or "desirable" is hypocritical.

Developers use them to i) insulate the developer from liability, and ii) disenfranchise the homeowners. You'll find that the developer unilaterally controls the HOA for as long as the developer wants and that the developer (by virtue of controlling the HOA) is immune from being threatened by it in any fashion. The developer "taxes" the homeowners through assessments and spends the money as the developer wishes. The developer may also control the HOA to borrow money - and only the properties of the homeowners serve as the security for these loans. No doubt these are just some of the advantages you alluded to.

As to "advantages" for the homeowner, there really aren't any unless of course you are a board member. For the other 99% of the homeowners, perpetual liens on your property that can never be paid off are not things that add value to the property owner. The overt control that HOA boards (particularly when "professional" management companies are involved) inevitably engage in does not benefit the owner of the property, nor does the litigation vortex benefit any owner. The evidence is that HOAs do not preserve value at all for the owner of the property. 30+ years of false sales pitches doesn't make it true. The onus is on the HOA industry to prove otherwise. You would think with 30+ years of making such claims the industry might be able to come up with empirical evidence to substantiate the claim - yet they don't because they can't - the claims are myths.

Your own statements also reveal the fallacy of claiming that numerosity is equivalent to popularity. They are not the same at all. As to claiming that people are choosing the HOA by evidence that they are buying HOA-burdened properties mandated by your legislature, that's like claiming people really like contaminated air because they "chose" to breath it. They weren't given a choice. Involuntary memberships and legislative mandates speaks volumes about how "desirable" HOAs really are.

The HOA proponents also always fail to include the carrying costs of the HOA much less all the ways in which the HOA devalues the property to the owner. Don't worry about "property values" too much because it won't be long before transfer fees, certificate of compliance fees, entry fees, resale certificate fees, assessments, special assessments, private "fines", subdivision information fees, enhancement fees, etc. leave you owing money mostly to HOA vendors when you try to sell your HOA-burdened home. The laws were being written by the HOA vendors for the HOA vendors - not you. HOAs are all about money - how much of it can be taken from the owners for the benefit of the developer, municipalities, and vendors.
There is a boat load of false information in your post. Developers only control HOA's to the extent that they own property in the neighborhood. As they sell homes, townhomes, condos, ect the percentage of properties they own decreases and so does the number of votes they carry in the home owners association. Once a developer no longer owns any property in a neighborhood, he/she has no votes and absolutely no say in how the HOA is run. Developers don't tax homeowners at all. HOA's get revenue to maintain common grounds and amenities through monthly dues. Assessments are typically reserved for unexpected expenses such as a lack of proper budgeting or unforeseen damages to common area property. Any revenue collected by the HOA does not go to the developer unless it is payment for a product or service rendered. Developers have absolutely no method for "taxing" property owners under any circumstances. I have never heard of a developer getting a loan on common area property and I can think of no bank that would issue such a loan.
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Old 03-08-2011, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,114 posts, read 15,641,651 times
Reputation: 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains View Post
Get a grip

We are all sorry for the difficulties you are having with a handful of people in your neighborhood. That sucks, it really does.

But Jack is 1000% right and nothing he has said is "hurtful".

He makes excellent points that the vast majority of people in HOA's are very happy with the way theirs is run. I am in my 4th neighborhood in 25 years with an HOA and I would never live in a neighborhood without one.

You are in a very unusual situation and I hope it gets remedied legally for you, but in no way is your experience the norm like you keep implying.
Loves, you are correct. In addition, HOA's are not perfect, no one expects them to be.

We just received our monthly newsletter and I couldn't be happier w/the progress going on in our development. There is a detailed amount of monies in the coffers and specific improvements that are being made w/o increasing our dues (including adding a small pool among various improvements). Again, this is done by ALL VOLUNTEERS because there are good people on our board who want to make it a better subdivision and don't have egos.
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Old 03-08-2011, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
45,270 posts, read 88,319,180 times
Reputation: 39846
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Loves, you are correct. In addition, HOA's are not perfect, no one expects them to be.

We just received our monthly newsletter and I couldn't be happier w/the progress going on in our development. There is a detailed amount of monies in the coffers and specific improvements that are being made w/o increasing our dues (including adding a small pool among various improvements). Again, this is done by ALL VOLUNTEERS because there are good people on our board who want to make it a better subdivision and don't have egos.

Right! And again, the vast majority of HOA's are well run by those volunteers.

But I guess the truth really does "hurt"
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Old 03-08-2011, 04:58 PM
 
1,661 posts, read 2,786,141 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
No, I'm talking about pre-1999 HOAs after the 2004 change in 47F allowing them to fine/lien/foreclose if not specified otherwise in the CCRs.
I recommend that you re-read what I posted. Deed restricted HOAs that existed prior to 1999 could sue and fine. Otherwise there would be no point to them.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:36 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 6,640,893 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by TouchingGrace View Post
This is interesting..in our CC&R the amendment part says "at LEAST a majority of homeowners AND the DEVELOPER can amend". What the lawyers have been saying is "you can't amend now that the Developer is not present" but these folks think they can amend without the Developer.
What say you??
Yours can't amend because there is nothing to amend. Well I mean HOA wise. I suppose if the developer would pop up before 20 years is up then there would be a chance it could happen but there's no record of that on the filings that the usurpers did.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:42 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 6,640,893 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains View Post
Right! And again, the vast majority of HOA's are well run by those volunteers.

But I guess the truth really does "hurt"
Very, very few people know what happens in the background with liens and FCs. I'd be happy to look up what yours has done in the recent past if you DM the name. Otherwise you can't be sure.

That said, I'd (really) like to know the name of the management company you use if you are happy because I'd like to see ours change at some point. The problems with most are not the volunteers but the management companies giving bad advise that lead to disasters for some individuals. When that happens and the homeowner doesn't know better and doesn't fight it then everything looks fine. The board takes bad advise, the homeowner doesn't know their rights and so how would you know as a resident/member that there was a problem?

I'm withholding judgment as far as what the majority are like because I don't know. A light needs to be shined and anyone that operates in a government needs to be scrutinized. HOAs are private governments and so there needs to be openness and transparency and everything done above board. If that is how it is for EVERYONE in your neighborhood then great. Otherwise for those that you don't know about it could be devastating for them.

I wonder what percentage of folks even show up for most board meetings. In most cases I'd guess far less than 10%.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:45 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 6,640,893 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
I recommend that you re-read what I posted. Deed restricted HOAs that existed prior to 1999 could sue and fine. Otherwise there would be no point to them.
Umm I know the law very well thank you. How about you respond to this?

Is it OK for pre 1999s to fine and lien on properties if it isn't mentioned in the CCR? Is it legal for them to do so?

I'm not talking about lawsuit. I never said anything about lawsuits. I'm specifically talking about pre 1999 HOAs that have CCRs that do not include the power to fine and lien.

Is it OK for them to fine and lien and if so how can you shop around for one if the CCRs don't mention these fines and liens?

I'm only talking pre-1999.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
9,114 posts, read 15,641,651 times
Reputation: 3690
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
Very, very few people know what happens in the background with liens and FCs. I'd be happy to look up what yours has done in the recent past if you DM the name. Otherwise you can't be sure.
In most cases Boards of Directors are very passive AT FIRST regarding unpaid dues. However, since we've had so many people in financial trouble, more are not paying their dues. MOST HOA's will do everything in their power to contact or work out a payment plan w/these people. The problem is you have idiot homeowners who say "I never got a letter about dues", or they just ignore the letters thinking they'll go away. Hellllllllo, earth to homeowner, if you COMMUNICATE w/the HOA, they'll work out a payment plan with you. That's the problem, people ignore these things and then when they get fines and late penalties, they ***** about the HOA's.....



Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post

I wonder what percentage of folks even show up for most board meetings. In most cases I'd guess far less than 10%.
You're probably right. Its the same thing about voting in this country. Most people don't vote, but then they whine and complain..... If you don't like something or want to have more of a say, then roll up your sleeves and do something about it instead of bitching like a lot of people. on here.
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Old 03-08-2011, 07:18 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 6,640,893 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
In most cases Boards of Directors are very passive AT FIRST regarding unpaid dues. However, since we've had so many people in financial trouble, more are not paying their dues. MOST HOA's will do everything in their power to contact or work out a payment plan w/these people. The problem is you have idiot homeowners who say "I never got a letter about dues", or they just ignore the letters thinking they'll go away. Hellllllllo, earth to homeowner, if you COMMUNICATE w/the HOA, they'll work out a payment plan with you. That's the problem, people ignore these things and then when they get fines and late penalties, they ***** about the HOA's.....





You're probably right. Its the same thing about voting in this country. Most people don't vote, but then they whine and complain..... If you don't like something or want to have more of a say, then roll up your sleeves and do something about it instead of bitching like a lot of people. on here.
Yeah I agree well mostly in the past anyway. I think so much of it now adays is people that are going to lose their homes anyway so they stop paying and then you get into the double FC issue which I'm not rehashing here because of my blood pressure

But I promise you if you read some of the case files at the courthouse you would think they are outrageous. I already have a website reserved to upload them but don't have the time right now. The Armstrong case and this case from the OP here are classics.

OTOH I got f'bombed by my HOA president at a hearing once. And lately he's been taking pictures of kids at the playground and uploading them to facebook to ask if people recognize them. I've got issues with that. Someone has a complex.
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