U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-20-2011, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
8,448 posts, read 10,245,729 times
Reputation: 3212

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatmom6722 View Post
It's not easy being a principal or teacher in a school where there's misbehaving and under achieving students. Where's the parents of these troublesome students? Apparently they're missing the mark. I hate it when some parents use school as a day care, not actively involved with their child's learning. Would it be wrong to just allow the unmotivated students to keep doing what they're doing and pay more attention to the more serious and motivated students? What a tough situation....
Do you have to deal with unions like they do up north which give so many protections to kids its rediculous....

I don't get it. Don't you (prinicipals) have freedom to create your own disciplinary measures? If not, why not? What holds you back?

I'm not asking to be a smart a**, I'm seriously asking the question(s)....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-20-2011, 04:00 PM
 
149 posts, read 167,167 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Do you have to deal with unions like they do up north which give so many protections to kids its rediculous....

I don't get it. Don't you (prinicipals) have freedom to create your own disciplinary measures? If not, why not? What holds you back?

I'm not asking to be a smart a**, I'm seriously asking the question(s)....

Sigh.... First of all, Not all the school districts in NY are unionized. There are many school districts who identify themselves as UFSD - UNION FREE SCHOOL DISTRICT. It's not an easy task to discipline children who aren't yours because if the school district is unionized or not it can still create lawsuits from the parents who practice the "Not my kid" philosophy. So you still didn't give a proper resolution to this situation so I assume you don't have the answer either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2011, 07:32 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
13,063 posts, read 12,937,993 times
Reputation: 4339
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Do you have to deal with unions like they do up north which give so many protections to kids its rediculous....

I don't get it. Don't you (prinicipals) have freedom to create your own disciplinary measures? If not, why not? What holds you back?

I'm not asking to be a smart a**, I'm seriously asking the question(s)....
Jack, the unions don't protect unruly kids. They do, however, protect teachers from lawsuit-happy parents. Nowdays, that's the bigest draw for the unions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
8,448 posts, read 10,245,729 times
Reputation: 3212
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Jack, the unions don't protect unruly kids. They do, however, protect teachers from lawsuit-happy parents. Nowdays, that's the bigest draw for the unions.
They do protect against lawsuits, however, they also tie the hands of teachers from how they can discipline students.

I do know first hand from a teacher in NJ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2011, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
8,448 posts, read 10,245,729 times
Reputation: 3212
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatmom6722 View Post
Sigh.... First of all, Not all the school districts in NY are unionized. There are many school districts who identify themselves as UFSD - UNION FREE SCHOOL DISTRICT. It's not an easy task to discipline children who aren't yours because if the school district is unionized or not it can still create lawsuits from the parents who practice the "Not my kid" philosophy. So you still didn't give a proper resolution to this situation so I assume you don't have the answer either.
Ok, I'll try to keep it simple because you are fighting me when I offered a solution.

I'll repeat it again. How about mandatory out of school suspensions for fighting.

Do you agree or disagree?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2011, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Ballantyne
213 posts, read 209,029 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
Ok, I'll try to keep it simple because you are fighting me when I offered a solution.

I'll repeat it again. How about mandatory out of school suspensions for fighting.

Do you agree or disagree?

Disagree to a point.

Some, not all, of the kids who would be suspended from school for fighting wouldn't be punished at home. This would be like an extra spring break for them.

At the school I graduated from in Georgia we were taken out of school after a fight by the cops. You would be arrested albeit that was high school. Middle school we had ISS (in school suspension) which was FAR worse than out of school suspension. I had LOADS more work to do. My PE teacher made me write a 7-page paper on a different sport every day I was in there. It was jail. I won't tell you what I did, lol, but I can tell you I never did it again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2011, 11:13 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
13,063 posts, read 12,937,993 times
Reputation: 4339
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
They do protect against lawsuits, however, they also tie the hands of teachers from how they can discipline students.

I do know first hand from a teacher in NJ.
Jack, my sister & brother-in-law have taught in South Jersey for 36 years. The school board tells them what they can & can't do about unruly kids, not the union.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2011, 11:24 AM
 
1,118 posts, read 410,537 times
Reputation: 784
There are actually legal reasonings behind this tactic. School districts across the country have come under fire for any disparate punishments along racial lines, so schools have responded by punishing everyone to avoid being sued.

At my son's school, they have a no tolerance policy against fighting. If you are in a fight, you get an automatic 5 days suspension, even if you weren't the one that initiated the fight. My son got suspended for fighting back against a boy that attacked him. I know this is a stupid policy. I think the school knows this is a stupid policy. But I understand why they use it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2011, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Wouldn't you like to know?
8,448 posts, read 10,245,729 times
Reputation: 3212
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Jack, my sister & brother-in-law have taught in South Jersey for 36 years. The school board tells them what they can & can't do about unruly kids, not the union.
ok, I could be wrong. It could possibly be the specific school board. I don't know. I'll have to get a specific example from my buddy about the impact of NJEA in the contract and tying his hands...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2011, 12:29 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
13,063 posts, read 12,937,993 times
Reputation: 4339
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouponJack View Post
ok, I could be wrong. It could possibly be the specific school board. I don't know. I'll have to get a specific example from my buddy about the impact of NJEA in the contract and tying his hands...
Now, where he might be coming from, is that the union lawyers may be telling him not to go against school board policies that tie his hands. So yes, the union would tie his hands but only because of school board policies. They cannot defend him if he violates the school board policies & then is fired for doing that. I've heard some fairly incredible stories over the years.

In the case of this thread, this is a principal. The principals are concidered management & are not union members. My assumption is that she probably directly consulted the school board lawyers to find out if the lock down would be legal & not in violation of school board policies. As long as it pases both tests, she's home free.

ETA: If there are policies that tie his hands in the contract, that does not mean that they are union policies.

Last edited by southbound_295; 03-21-2011 at 12:38 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top