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Old 03-25-2011, 03:47 PM
 
1,661 posts, read 2,695,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevelandguy811 View Post
.... That's a bigger "boondoggle" (to steal a word from the observer) than any rail project.

I would love if high speed rail could sprout up immediately, but to lay track for HSR trains would cost billions..... .
On your first point about boondoggles, one of the stated primary reasons for the government spending on this rail project is to provide jobs. I would argue, there isn't a bigger job producing industry in this country when you consider highway based transportation. I'm not saying that I agree with all the highway building either, but the case hasn't been made for spending the money on this project vs the opportunity cost. (there never is with rail transit)

On the second point, I agree that people would love to ride true high speed rail, but as you point out, they don't want to spend the money on it. So instead, they spend money to upgrade tracks so they can run the existing Amtrak locomotives at 90mph. This isn't going to do much for ridership IMO. Not when you can drive there faster. It should also be noted that Perdue, requested $5B. They gave her 10%.

The problem, as there are in a lot of these projects, is they are not part of a comprehensive transit plan for the USA. It's a bunch of federal give aways to supporters, and corporations that don't anything to meet any real goals, because there aren't any. Oh and it sounds nice when politicians speak from the teleprompter.
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Old 03-26-2011, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Ayrsley
4,714 posts, read 8,237,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyKayak View Post
Solution reduce the stops to three.
Charlotte, Greensboro, Raleigh.
Exactly. They will need to offer at least a couple of express trains a day that skip some of the stops...at least one Charlotte-Raleigh express per day with no stops in between would be nice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Supachai View Post
Do people even ride Amtrack?
Down here, it seems, not so much. When I lived in Baltimore, the train service up and down the northeast corridor was rather popular. For a lot of us, it was a quick and convenient way to get between DC, Baltimore, Philly and NYC. Cars were often packed with business travelers during the week. Until recently, I was working here in Charlotte for a company based in Raleigh; having true high-speed rail service between the two cities would have been great for me.

Last edited by Tober138; 03-26-2011 at 07:40 AM..
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Old 03-26-2011, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Lake Norman, NC
7,069 posts, read 10,823,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelle704 View Post
Without this project, the Gateway Station and the Red Line will not happen at all.
We can only hope the Red line doesn't happen!!!
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Old 03-26-2011, 10:36 PM
 
4,675 posts, read 7,808,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy_wilhelm View Post
There is more to this than saving thirteen minutes:
  • The Charlotte Gateway Station cannot serve passenger trains until the CSX-Norfolk Southern crossing is grade-separated. Neither carrier will allow the number of additional intercity (Amtrak) and commuter (Red Line) trains to cross through the junction to access the station until it is grade-separated, which is part of this funding.
  • Increased safety by closing thirty at-grade crossings and building a dozen new bridges.
  • Adding a third and fourth frequency Piedmont service between Charlotte and Raleigh, allowing for more convenient schedules.
  • Double-tracking the NCRR between Charlotte and Greensboro - the busiest section of rail in the state - and adding sidings between Greensboro and Raleigh. This allows increased speeds, capacity and reliability for both passenger and freight service. This is also part of Norfolk Southern's "Crescent Corridor" - a major intermodal corridor between Louisiana and New Jersey - which will remove an estimated 392,000 trucks from North Carolina's highways annually, and serve the new intermodal facility being constructed at Charlotte-Douglass Intl. Airport.

Also:
  • The implementation of Positive Train Control in the coming years will allow for speeds to be increased to 90 mph, saving an additional 12-15 minutes. Norfolk Southern may or may not allow these high of speeds until every at-grade crossing is removed or grade-separated.
  • The much-needed S-Line upgrades between Raleigh and Richmond have not received federal ARRA funding because the final Tier II Environmental Impact Statement has yet to be completed (which should be completed this year, along with a Record of Decision).
  • Once completed, the Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor will have a maximum speed of 110 mph, with average speeds of 85-87 mph, which is faster than the average speed of 70 mph for the electrified, 150 mph Acela Express service in the Northeast Corridor.

I hope I have helped paint a broader picture of how big of an impact this funding will make for our state, and not just "thirteen minutes saved."
This definitely should clear up any misconceptions about HSR. I think people need to remember we've got to start preparing for the future. With gas prices rising as they NC needs to be prepared for other. Forms of transportation that can still encourage growth. There is a reason why the NE corridor is a booming region.
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Old 03-27-2011, 05:22 AM
 
1,661 posts, read 2,695,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adavi215 View Post
This definitely should clear up any misconceptions about HSR. ....
When people hear "High Speed Rail" they imagine something such as this:


This is what "High Speed Rail" means for North Carolina.
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:15 AM
 
Location: The 12th State
22,974 posts, read 57,230,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
When people hear "High Speed Rail" they imagine something such as this:

I do not understand why we cannot have this version. I would behind the project if we did.
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:33 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
20,501 posts, read 25,705,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyKayak View Post
I do not understand why we cannot have this version. I would behind the project if we did.
Sunny, it's my understanding that that version will come, but for that they need to do a lot more than what they are doing now, so the object of the game is to upgrade & then build up ridership. When ridership is built up, they can start looking at changes to get the other. Heck, the Acela service in the Northeast corridor isn't a "bullet train".
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Old 03-29-2011, 06:40 AM
 
Location: The 12th State
22,974 posts, read 57,230,832 times
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13 minutes is not going to motivate ridership nor encourage people to ditch the car for unreliable, untimely train that amtrack is providing. We need a true high speed instead of 2oth century version.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:01 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
20,501 posts, read 25,705,659 times
Reputation: 8146
Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyKayak View Post
13 minutes is not going to motivate ridership nor encourage people to ditch the car for unreliable, untimely train that amtrack is providing. We need a true high speed instead of 2oth century version.
True, but Amtrak has wanted to extend Acela for a while. Here's an old thread of mine concerning that. Extending Acela to Charlotte
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:45 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 22,628,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Sunny, it's my understanding that that version will come, but for that they need to do a lot more than what they are doing now, so the object of the game is to upgrade & then build up ridership. When ridership is built up, they can start looking at changes to get the other. Heck, the Acela service in the Northeast corridor isn't a "bullet train".
HSR is actually 125mph+ by European and Northeastern standards..... The Acela averages 130mph south of Elizabeth,NJ and 150mph in New England. It can be 170mph but Capacity is limited....Amtrak is slowly pulling support for projects that don't make sense in the $$$$ dept and dumping it into the profitable NE...

Most of the 2020 Projects below are funded by the Feds or the states...or by Revenue....

Amtrak Northeastern Division

Projects to be completed by 2020

Gateway Tunnel / Moynihan Station
New Haven - Springfield Corridor
Lackawanna line
Norfolk line
DMU trains > Downeaster , Vermonter
Electrification of the Empire line & Lackawanna line
Re-routed Vermont trains
Cape Cod service
New Shops
Overhaul of the Northeast Corridor
Newer Amfleet Cars
City Sprinter locos
Overhaul of Bridgeport , Stamford , Baltimore , Philly , Newark Stations
Added Capacity to South Station , DC Union , NY Penn station , Springfield station , Hartford , Providence , Harrisburg
Overhaul and Replacement of NEC wires , Bridges , Tunnels
LED Signal Bulbs
Concrete Ties on all lines
LED Departure Boards @ All stations
Connecticut River Bridge replacements
Baltimore Tunnel Replacements
Added Capacity along the NEC in NJ , CT , RI , MA
Grade Separations @ Raritan Valley line , Jersey Avenue ,New Rochelle / New Haven line , Waterbury merge , Danbury line merge


Large Scale Rail Projects

Project : Lackawanna line (Regional Rail / Intercity Rail)
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 5/6 (Intercity)
Projected Ridership : 12,000
Status : Under Construction in NJ

Project : Lehigh line (Regional Rail / Intercity Rail)
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 7 (Intercity)
Projected Ridership : 15,000
Status : Awaiting Funding

Project : Concord line (Regional Rail / Intercity Rail)
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 3
Projected Ridership : 2,000
Status : Awaiting Funding

Project : Cape Cod line (Regional Rail / Intercity Rail)
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 7
Projected Ridership : 14,000 (seasonal)
Status : Awaiting Funding

Project : Norfolk line
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 8
Projected Ridership : 5,000
Status : Under Construction

Project : New Haven - Springfield line (Regional Rail / Intercity Rail)
Number of lines : 1
Stations : 3 (Intercity)
Projected Ridership : 9,000
Status : Under Construction


Current Amtrak NE System

Line : Northeast Regional (Regional Rail / Intercity Rail)
Length : 664 mi
Stations : 42
Ridership : 25,000 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 45,000

Line : Acela Express (Regional Rail / Intercity Rail)
Length : 456 mi
Stations : 14
Ridership : 9,400 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 16,000

Line : Downeaster (Regional Rail / Intercity Rail)
Length : 116 mi
Stations : 10
Ridership : 1,300 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 6,300

Line : Vermonter
Length : 611 mi
Stations : 27
Ridership : 240 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 3,000

Line : Keystone (Regional Rail / Intercity Rail)
Length : 195 mi
Stations : 19
Ridership : 3,500 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 8,000

Line : Pennsylvanian
Length : 444 mi
Stations : 17
Ridership : 557 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 5,000

Line : Empire
Length : 460 mi
Stations : 15
Ridership : 2,500 > Projected 2020 Ridership : 5,800




Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyKayak View Post
13 minutes is not going to motivate ridership nor encourage people to ditch the car for unreliable, untimely train that amtrack is providing. We need a true high speed instead of 2oth century version.
I don't see any part of the South getting HSR till the 2030s....and you don't need it. You need to build connecting systems in Research Triangle and Charlotte and Richmond , otherwise Ridership will be low. Thats probably why ridership has spiked like up here on your Charlotte - Raleigh service , theres nothing to connect to in both cities.
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