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Old 04-26-2011, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Ayrsley
4,713 posts, read 9,655,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Bet you wouldn't find it so funny to be threatened with foreclosure over such a thing....and the threats don't stop with "garbage cans".

There is rarely any obligation for the HOA corporation to maintain its own property. "Rules" tend to be created for the purpose of generating "fines", collection fees, and lawsuits for the benefit of the HOA vendors.
Whatever...you're way off base. But then, your only purpose on City Data seems to be to bounce in and out of forums for cities all over the country going on and on about how bad and evil HOAs are so I guess its expected.
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Old 04-26-2011, 05:35 PM
 
1,661 posts, read 3,270,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Bet you wouldn't find it so funny to be threatened with foreclosure over such a thing....and the threats don't stop with "garbage cans".....There is rarely any obligation for the HOA corporation to maintain its own property. "Rules" tend to be created for the purpose of generating "fines", collection fees, and lawsuits for the benefit of the HOA vendors.
You keep making general statements and ignoring the specifics of how HOAs work in NC. Again what you have said does not apply to this state.
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Old 04-27-2011, 12:32 AM
 
5,150 posts, read 7,719,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobosCurse View Post
I overheard at work last week.
"An HOA is where you pay someone to tell you how to live in your own home."

I know it's an oversimplification, but it made me chuckle.

I look at it as payment for a nice well-kept pool and very nice landscaping. As far as enforcing rules, they either pick and choose who has to follow them, or they do enforce them and people choose to ignore them or just pay the fines. No way to really know by just looking at the surface. We put our garbage can in the garage when they sent us a letter, but many, many of our neighbors haven't.
The pick and choose should be unconstitutional. Acting under the color of state law, they would violate the 14th amendment if they pick and chose. I don't have any case law to back that up but I'm also sure most people in management companies or even board members have thought of that.

My campaign to get them to knock it off when going after me for parking a covered trailer behind my setback (the setback makes it legal here) I think spooked them so bad that now they don't go after anyone including say boat trailers.

That wasn't my point. They have every right and in fact a duty to go after someone that parks a boat that crosses the setback. But I'm not going to point that out either since they fine people for that violation when there's nothing in our CCRs that allows for fines for a trailer. But there's a loophole in the law that RETROACTIVELY allows them to do so. I can't support that so I'm not going to tell them they have the right to flag the buy because I don't think they should have the right to fine someone by un-grandfathering something in.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,969 posts, read 3,577,538 times
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I think the far more appropriate question to ask is "Magnets - how do they work??"
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:01 AM
 
3,423 posts, read 4,411,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
Exactly what obligations? Please provide some actual detailYou obviously do not understand the law in NC. The law requires all HOAs in the state to incorporate as a non-profit and the only members are homeowners. Sure there can be other easements on property including historic ones. They are irrelevant to this topic.
Your response was in regards to the remark that HOA corporations and restrictive covenants are not the same thing. Yantosh, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the the law in your own state.

Just because a corporation is a "non-profit" does not mean that the corporation is not operated for the profit of the board members or the developer of the subdivision. Non-profit does not equate to charitable. Finally, membership of the HOA corporation is NOT limited to "homeowners". The developer/declarant is invariably a member throughout the period of developer control - which could last forever. During the period of developer control, the developer controls the HOA corporation. Membership is limited to "lot owners" - not "homeowners" (see §47F-3-101 of the Act) Membership in the corporation is distinct from the issue of who controls the HOA. Developers also have unilateral control over the restrictive covenants during the developer control period which allows them to add more property (to extend control) or to withdraw their property (free from CCRs).

Incredibly you refuse to recognize a distinction between the HOA corporation and restrictive covenants. By the way, "easements" are not a generic term for restrictive covenants. As previously stated, one can have restrictive covenants without having an HOA corporation. Typically, if there is an HOA corporation burdening the property the property is so-burdened by imposing a restrictive covenant requiring involuntary membership in the HOA corporation. However, again there is no requirement to have an HOA corporation with restrictive covenants and property can be burdened with restrictive covenants without any specifically requiring involuntary membership in the HOA corporation.

Quote:
Not in NC. Please give some examples.
Your comment was in response to the remark that "these private corporations are running their own courts, police, legislature, etc." Are you kidding? What do you think private "fining" is? No court is making a determination of "violation". More often than not, management companies or HOA attorneys that profit from the fining and collections process are making such claims under the pretext of being "agent" for the corporation. HOA corporation boards and vendors are routinely attempting to declare "violation" without court intervention, assess "fines" without court intervention, make up "rules" that would never fly as ordinances and which wholly ignore property rights of the individuals. Are you kidding? Try this story and note also that some legislators (in North Carolina, by the way) hear more complaints about HOA abuse than any other issue. Note also the interim session hearings in the North Carolina legislature about abuses by the HOA corporations and vendors:
Woman's battle with HOA extends to her fence

Quote:
Note in NC. Please provide some examples.
Your comment was in response to the remark about HOA management companies and boards attempting to prohibit parking on public streets. Believe it or not it happens all across the United States including in the State of North Carolina.

Quote:
Read the statue above, and tell us which paragraphs were put there by trade groups? Again, this isn't relevant in NC.
Who are you kidding? The entire Act was written by the HOA industry trade group. The most active members of the trade group are HOA attorneys and HOA management companies. This trade group has sought to create a "Planned Community Act" or "Common Interest Ownership Act" in every state. The entire Act is designed to benefit the HOA corporation (and its agents) to the detriment of the involuntary members of the organization. You might want to look at section 47F-3-102 of the Act, or the heavily-weighted-in-favor-of-the-HOA leanings of the Act, and the lack of any meaningful remedies for homeowners.
North Carolina Planned Community Act

Consider that a few of your legislative candidates included HOA reform as part of their platform:
Candidates would consider limiting power of homeowners associations | StarNewsOnline.com

Quote:
I won't bother with the rest of your post as you are citing examples that don't apply with NC and as I said above, you obviously have not read the very act that you are commenting about.
North Carolina homeowners are not immune from the vagaries of the "community association" (i.e., vendor corporation) industry. The Act was was written by HOA industry players and deficient with respect to a number of things - particularly as to protections for homeowners with respect to unscrupulous boards and managing agents. Sticking your head in the sand does not make the problem go away.

In an attempt to reign in some of the unscrupulous management companies and boards, homeowner advocates are seeking a number of reforms including mandated open meetings and prohibitions against the "priority of payment scam" that the trade group is well known for engaging in. Here is one example of the opposition to reform being made by one CAI-affiliated management company:
Community Association Management | Legislative Update - NC HB 165

Looks like the management company opposes open meetings, a budget process that owners can participate in, and of course elimination of the "priority of payment scam". Catch a clue, the HOA vendor industry wrote the Act primarily for their benefit - not yours.

For the uninformed, the "priority of payment scam" is a scam whereby the HOA management company (allegedly on behalf of the HOA corporation) re-characterizes your assessment payments and applies them to fines, junk fees, and various other fees routed to the managing agent or the HOA attorney (i.e., the vendors). Because of the re-characterization scheme, your assessment payment is applied in part or entirely to fees declared by these vendors instead of the assessments. These vendors then claim that you are "in arrears" on your assessment which generates even more fees for the vendors (e.g., late fees, collection fees, attorney fees). Many HOA "professional" management companies have provisions purporting to allow the HOA management company to collect a late fee (for itself) for each month the homeowner is "in arrears". Needless to say, such management companies get creative about ways to create and maintain delinquencies for the benefit of the management company - certainly not for the benefit of the homeowner or the client HOA corporation.

Because the HOA corporation can foreclose for failure to pay assessments, the HOA management companies and HOA attorneys utilize the "priority of payment scam" to extort money from homeowners for the benefit of the vendors. This is a very common practice among HOA industry players all over the country - even in North Carolina. Many states have had to adopt legislation to protect homeowners - or are in the process of trying to adopt legislation to protect homeowners from these industry practices. At the link above, note the management company's concerns about how the proposed legislation would require the HOA (and its agents) to apply payments (thus putting an end to the priority of payment scam).

...not that anything like that happens in North Carolina, of course....

Last edited by IC_deLight; 04-27-2011 at 11:45 AM..
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:39 AM
 
1,661 posts, read 3,270,342 times
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Again with the generalities and no specifics to NC, IC_delight. The NC Law is clearly posted earlier in this topic.

I recommend that if you have a beef about HOAs in whatever state you live in, you concentrate on fixing it there.

Last edited by SunnyKayak; 04-27-2011 at 02:29 PM.. Reason: flaming
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Old 04-27-2011, 01:04 PM
 
3,423 posts, read 4,411,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
Again with the generalities and no specifics to NC, IC_delight. The NC Law is clearly posted earlier in this topic. Obviously you don't want to read it or respond to it because it clearly because it proves everything you are implying is simply wrong.

I recommend that if you have a beef about HOAs in whatever state you live in, you concentrate on fixing it there.


My comments are generally directed to the OP's inquiry. To the extent you have a different position, others who read your posts and mine can judge for themselves who to believe.

HOAs do not preserve property values - at least not for the owners. The abuses are not "isolated instances" but rather ubiquitous with the existence of the HOAs (your NC legislators will be happy to discuss the number of complaints about them from all over the state - links provided in prior post).

The "goings on" of the HOA boards and vendors aren't exactly put forth proactively. Industry players with the aid of HOA board members try suppressing disclosure of the abuses and practices so that they can continue. The OP was asking precisely about those practices rather than the false marketing propaganda constantly touted about the "values" of HOAs.

By the way, the HOA industry is not limited to intra-state conduct. The practices of this industry are interstate and nationwide. HOAs are very lucrative for the vendors - not so much for the homeowners.

Last edited by SunnyKayak; 04-27-2011 at 02:28 PM.. Reason: flaming
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:19 PM
 
Location: The 12th State
22,974 posts, read 65,252,507 times
Reputation: 15075
mod note
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#1:
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:57 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 7,719,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
Again with the generalities and no specifics to NC, IC_delight. The NC Law is clearly posted earlier in this topic.

I recommend that if you have a beef about HOAs in whatever state you live in, you concentrate on fixing it there.
His comments are right on the money and are valuable to anyone interested in the OP's question. Some of his replies are far better than most because it isn't stuff like "if you don't like it you should move" or "you're an idiot because you didn't background check the board of directors".

He's sharing facts and trying to shoo him out because he might live in another state is disingenuous.
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:04 PM
 
1,661 posts, read 3,270,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchief1 View Post
...

He's sharing facts and trying to shoo him out because he might live in another state is disingenuous.
Not really. His comment were already addressed pages ago in regards to the specifics of the NC law. He is being shooed because he won't do this.
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