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Old 10-31-2011, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,717 posts, read 9,340,074 times
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Marino is still a great QB IMO.

Trent Dilfer is not a great QB and he has a ring.

It's still a team game... if Cam has deep playoff runs and the Panthers have a bunch of winning season's he will be considered a great QB.

No one is calling Cam "great" yet but he is off to a great start.
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:55 AM
 
3,450 posts, read 3,131,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
So as we have learned the Vikings never had to go more than around 30 yards to score each time where the Panthers had to do some long drives... You really think the Vikings could have done the long drives?


On busted coverage no less. Though good to see Newton was able to see this


Again, it shouldn't come to it. If we analyze the final drive, especially the two plays leading to a FG attempt, we see the following...
- 3rd-3 - 6 yard rush by Newton; Smitty holding penalty.
- 3rd-7 - Short yard pass to Smitty (for 5 yards) that wasn't going to get a first down i.e. too many guys around him.
Those two plays are also in the big time and two of the big panthers players who missed as well.

More quotes by Newton on the game...
"Three-and-out is unacceptable if you expect to win games," said Newton. "You call yourself a high-powered offense, that's not it."

Read more: A big day for Cam leads to frustration - NFL - NewsObserver.com

3 of them to be exact. All in the second half.
Doesn't matter whether the ball is fumbled on the 5, 10 or 50 yard line, the defense needs step-up and do a better job, period. Absolutely, 3 consecutive (3 and outs) are unacceptable, but can happen so the defense has to be prepared. Some of the play calling seemed off-balanced and not in rhythm during the 2nd half. But credit the Vikings defense for making adjustments, too often it's hard for the other side/fans to credit the opposition.

Busted coverage? Wow, just wow...does it pain to state Cam and Lefell made a good play? It's easy to point out the mistakes (fumbles) but seems agonizing to give credit.
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:12 AM
 
3,450 posts, read 3,131,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tread102 View Post
It is Ben's fault he takes too many chances sometimes but its also what makes him great. That INT he threw yesterday just can't be thrown. Cam isn't great yet he is a rookie that looks decent. Ben wasn't great either his rookie year when we went 15-1. He became an all time great when he threw that pass to holmes to win his second superbowl.

Superbowls is what makes a qb an all time great. thats why Montana is considered greater than Marino even though the latter's stats are greater. In the end it comes down to superbowls.

I've never expected the panthers to make the playoffs let alone win the superbowl, but I get so tired of people saying Cam is great and all this. He is a rookie qb, and the sky is the limit for him. His talent is great, but when its all said and done 10 of 15 years from now. His career will be measured by how many rings he has. At that point we may or may not call him great!
I think he's been much better than "decent" given the criticism for taking a chance on him as the No. 1 draft pick. Basically, expectations of the failure-bar have evolved amongst the critics, from bust to just below average....so he seems great!! LOL, I know he's gotta a long way to go from better than "decent", to good, to very good and maybe great (if ever of the latter 3).

Appreciate what Cam can do but the biggest problem is getting DeAngelo Williams involved. IMO, those 2nd-half 3 and outs resulted from lack of attention to Dwill or JStew for 5-7 yard gains (short pass plays). Not so sure why they abandoned that game plan (see Redskins game) during second half, might want to scrap that sequence of plays from the playbook.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:05 PM
 
1,259 posts, read 1,263,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Marino is still a great QB IMO.

Trent Dilfer is not a great QB and he has a ring.

It's still a team game... if Cam has deep playoff runs and the Panthers have a bunch of winning season's he will be considered a great QB.

No one is calling Cam "great" yet but he is off to a great start.
Never even mentioned Dilfer, but when you mention the best they all have multiple Superbowls. If Marino had gotten 2 rings he might have been considered the greatest ever. He didn't though, and is a qb with great regular season stats!
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Crown Town
2,742 posts, read 5,984,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
Yes, my bust prediction is wrong no doubt. But what has stood is he is no better than just average (talking from a QB perspective, not as a rusher).
Surely you're not talking about Cam Newton? Average? When this guy makes the Pro Bowl, which he will, you have to agree to stop the madness.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,717 posts, read 9,340,074 times
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I don't think a Pro Bowl will make Cam great.... VY went to a Pro Bowl didn't he? Just like winning a SB doesn't make you great either.

Your career is what makes you great or elite... I have no idea how Cam's future will unfold but right now we are watching something special.

We have Cam haters who are trying to define his career on every incompletion or every sack. Somehow a 2-14 team is stacked with SB talent and Cam is bringing them down...

Is Cam another Vick? Certainly not.. he is Cam Newton and it kills the haters to watch him make plays and get recognition as a good football player.

We should have waited on Andrew Luck... that guy is amazing. He is beating the best college football teams in, oh wait, he is beating the best scrubpar teams and showing how awesome he is...

Why oh why has Carolina foresaken it's fans with such a horrible QB. All those yards.. the selfishness, the passes to 3 different receivers, oh no's, this guy is trying to win another Heisman. He cares not what the Panthers do...
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,717 posts, read 9,340,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tread102 View Post
Never even mentioned Dilfer, but when you mention the best they all have multiple Superbowls. If Marino had gotten 2 rings he might have been considered the greatest ever. He didn't though, and is a qb with great regular season stats!
When you mention the best you mention Marino... end of story.

Championships define greatness on ESPN and NFL Network top 10's but football fans define greatness by playing your heart out and giving your team the best chance to win.

You can't tell me Warren Moon wasn't great..
that Elway wasn't great until he got a running game...

That Jim Kelly isn't great because he lost 24 straight SB's...

SB's are nice and all but too many fans and analyst are stuck on SB's to define greatness...
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,938,550 times
Reputation: 1357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolina Blue View Post
Surely you're not talking about Cam Newton? Average? When this guy makes the Pro Bowl, which he will, you have to agree to stop the madness.
The madness will stop when the multiple costly turnovers stop. When this does, those losses should start turning to wins.

Fun Fact: In the only games where Newton didn't have a turnover, the Panthers won. Strange, huh?
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:46 PM
 
3,450 posts, read 3,131,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
The madness will stop when the multiple costly turnovers stop. When this does, those losses should start turning to wins.

Fun Fact: In the only games where Newton didn't have a turnover, the Panthers won. Strange, huh?
You're right, if Cam doesn't play damn near a perfect game, the team has no chance of winning...surely other QBs have thrown 1 or more INTs and won the game (including that other rookie "sensation" Dalton)...what does that tell you genious? ....strange, huh?...Fun fact: Dalton has thrown 1 or more INTs in 3 games and Bengals still won....imagine that.
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:00 PM
 
218 posts, read 210,065 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
When you mention the best you mention Marino... end of story.

Championships define greatness on ESPN and NFL Network top 10's but football fans define greatness by playing your heart out and giving your team the best chance to win.

You can't tell me Warren Moon wasn't great..
that Elway wasn't great until he got a running game...

That Jim Kelly isn't great because he lost 24 straight SB's...

SB's are nice and all but too many fans and analyst are stuck on SB's to define greatness...
I agree, you don't have to win superbowl to be great. I mean look at the only black qb to ever win the superbowl, did he go down nfl history as the great qb?
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