U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-01-2011, 03:27 PM
 
515 posts, read 905,921 times
Reputation: 269

Advertisements

The problem is the fuel cycle used in the current plants. GE, Areva, and Westinghouse aren't interested in a different cycle, they have too much invested in this one...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-01-2011, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,783 posts, read 8,411,000 times
Reputation: 4818
Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
Well, I will respond despite the fact that you have started calling me names in this and other topics. No I don't want the media running around waving arms though this is all they can seem to do today.

Japan exposes some serious issues with these plants that have been glossed over by the effort to make nuclear power as the "new green". As we see there is nothing even close to that being true. The media, including the local media, if they were doing their job as journalists should be asking the nuclear power industry some very serious questions on what they are doing to review their own plans in light of this disaster. They should be asking the government why they stopped work, after spending tens of billions, on nuclear fuel rod disposal. They should be asking both what are their plans to change future nuclear designs. These are the questions that reasonable adults should be asking.

I see nothing unreasonable about these questions and they don't amount to chicken little running around saying the sky is falling. I am thinking the several hundred thousand that have been forced out of their homes near Fukushima wish the same had happened with Tepco. Will it happen? Well as the responses to me would indicate, people here are more comfortable with the stories spun by the status quo. Big profits are at stake.
It was this and one other thread with a new poster (who had some hesitations about moving to the area). Your only "reference" there was that shooting. When you only point out the bad using extreme examples and it develops into a habit I see that as alarmist... which to me isn't a "name" and shouldn't be made bigger then 2 posts.

I'm all for the serious questions - but a shooting in South Charlotte doesn't define the area as much as what is happening in Japan doesn't define the nuclear industry. These are extreme examples. If you want to talk nuke scare, talk Chernobyl where it was incompetence more then an earthquake + giant tsunami double whammy that practically leveled the place.

I myself have raised questions about spent fuel rod storage in another thread here, but it's not an easy fix. Who in their right mind wants those stored near them? They've tried to get it done and failed before. It's not a secret issue.

What would you suggest be done by MSM? I mean, they had a royal wedding to cover! and other stuff... Personally, I really enjoyed Trump getting roasted at the correspondents dinner.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2011, 03:47 PM
 
1,661 posts, read 2,785,504 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
....
I'm all for the serious questions - but a shooting in South Charlotte doesn't define the area as much as what is happening in Japan doesn't define the nuclear industry. ....
This is your opinion. I have no problem with you holding this opinion or any other and don't seek to discredit you for it to somehow improve my own standing. All I ask is you provide the same consideration.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2011, 04:37 PM
 
9 posts, read 16,746 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
vokeysand, In regards to the failed and lacking procedures I will summarize it for you:
  • There is a 9.0 Earthquake 80 miles off the shore of Japan ~160 miles from this nuclear plant.
  • The force registered at the plant is slightly less than 7 which is below what the plant is designed for. There is some minor damage at the plant. The 3 operating reactors are automatically shutdown as a precaution. 3 other reactors are off-line for maintenance.
  • All 6 reactors or their SPFs require constant cooling water.
  • Reactor shutdown means electricity generation is halted, cooling water pumps switched to grid power. (there should be a decision block here)
  • Earthquake causes failure of grid power so reactors switched to backup on-site generators.
  • Tsunami hits site. Water breaches retaining walls and shutdown diesel generators. (no diesel generators located away from plant)
  • Cooling is switched steam powered pumps controlled by batteries. Batteries continue to operate for 8 hours.
  • Batteries go flat, cooling stops, reactors start overheating, nuclear disaster begins.
  • Hydrogen gas buildup at 2 of the reactors causes the buildings to explode. There is a 3rd explosion at building 4 which exposes the spent fuel rods as well as the removed fuel rods directly to the environment. They cut a hole in the side of building 2 to keep it from exploding.
  • Very high amounts of radioactivity are being released into the environment. There is no solution developed at the moment.
So there was 8 hours where the reactors were being cooled properly where they had time to work out a set of procedures to deal with the issue. We won't know for some time what actually happened during this period, but an obvious answer would have been to restart one of the reactors to generate electricity for the site. it's been rumored the workers at the site where paralyzed because they could not get in contact with their bosses in Tokyo. However in the most very technically advanced and affluent Japan, the fact there wasn't any sort of plan to deal with is contingency, including having available a backup generator on a truck, speaks highly to the failure of management and procedures at this plant. This isn't the first time there were nuclear accidents there.

As for the news not reporting what is going on there. Trying using google. it won't take you long to run across radiation maps that show how bad it really is. Instead of this information, we have been told for the last week how important that Royal wedding is. I won't get into this subject again except to say you won't get any relevant information from the US corporate media.

The point of this and how it is relevant to Charlotte is the above disaster was caused by failures in management to make the proper investments in training and in infrastructure to deal with a situation that is easily predicted for a country like Japan. If a similar disaster happened at either Mcguire or Catawba, and using Japan as a guide, almost the entire city of Charlotte would have to be evacuated for the foreseeable future.
While I can appreciate your opinion you make some large assumptions. I don't see 8 hours as being very much time at all when you are dealing with a loss of all AC power, the entire site and surrounding area was completely covered by water, and your diesel tanks as well as other backup equipment was swept away by the incredible force of the water. I am confident in saying that they did not have any procedures in place, nor should they, to take a plant critical with no external power. (That idea flies in the face of engineered safeguards). The workers were literally in the dark and no amount of planning, designing, or training can overcome unforeseen disasters. If it were that well known that a tsunami of that size could be generated and be that damaging, there sure were alot of towns built and residents living in areas that should have known, by your rationale, that this day was coming. It truly was a terrible natural disaster and it seems that all some want to focus on is the nuclear plants. Let us not forget the thousands killed and all of those left homeless with nothing but the clothes on their back, all of which had nothing to do with a nuclear reaction. I worry more about just driving to the store to buy groceries. Again, you are welcome to your opinion, please just have knowledge based facts when you try to sell them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-01-2011, 05:13 PM
 
1,661 posts, read 2,785,504 times
Reputation: 549
I don't agree with you. When the alternative is Chernobyl, then when you better have a contingency in place for flooding and especially in a country that builds 30 ft flood walls as a matter of course. (the walls at the plant were only 18) It wasn't the earthquake nor the flood that caused this disaster but rather due to complacency by management that is more focused on profits over creating and maintaining plans for disaster. Further proof is that Tepco management withheld information and simply lied about the extent of the damage. When we were first told the risk was minimal, then heavily reinforced buildings start exploding to smithereens as proof otherwise, then this is a failure to manage, plain and simple.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2011, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Durham UK
2,031 posts, read 4,686,728 times
Reputation: 1132
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
yantosh - What exactly would you like the US corporate media to be reporting on Japan and what would you suggest that we be doing about it? Running around waving our arms over our heads? Japan has to take care of that and sooner then later it will be covered over with a concrete, sand, and boric cocktail like Chernobyl. That does not happen over night. I mean for goodness sakes, we're in Western NC which relates how to Japan geographically? The only possible thing you can say is that we're in the North hemisphere with them.

As for your subject line that Catawba is the "5th most dangerous Nuke in the USA"... Since my first reply you as the OP made no attempt to even address my question as what is dangerous.... Security? All the other nuke plants had design or maintenance issues. Catawba did NOT... You also can find info on McGuire's great record to our North.

Frankly this post reeks of random non-specific alarmist chicken little stuff and has no business in the Charlotte forum giving people the idea that we have "unsafe" nuke plants in this area... Maybe that's just me.
Oh dear.

Nuclear power plants are dangerous, just like automobiles and highways and tigers and lions.

So again, out of sight , out of mind. I'm allright jack pull the ladder up. Unfortunately too typical of many who WILL run around like headless chickens saying "well no-one told us this could happen" if a nuclear (ar any other type) of disaster occurs which affects them.

I have been amazed at how little concern/knowledge people here have shown/taken in the death toll etc in Alabama.

Japan exposes some serious issues with these plants that have been glossed over by the effort to make nuclear power as the "new green". As we see there is nothing even close to that being true. The media, including the local media, if they were doing their job as journalists should be asking the nuclear power industry some very serious questions on what they are doing to review their own plans in light of this disaster. They should be asking the government why they stopped work, after spending tens of billions, on nuclear fuel rod disposal. They should be asking both what are their plans to change future nuclear designs. These are the questions that reasonable adults should be asking.


Agreed.
And to say they have tried to sort it out in regard to nuclear waste being stored at Catawba (and most other plants) they have tried to sort it out and failed only goes to prove that because it's dangerous , no state wants it all on their doorstep.
By quietly keeping at each station almost everyone just forgets its there -on their door step

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2011, 10:20 AM
 
Location: CLT native
4,280 posts, read 10,033,770 times
Reputation: 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
The disaster at Fukashima is still ongoing, in fact getting worse, even though the news isn't talking about it here now. It wasn't the earthquake that cause the Fukashima disaster. it was the lack of correct procedures being followed when the backup power to the cooling systems failed.
It wasn't the earthquake, but the tsunami that inflicted the fatal damage.
That being said, why were nuclear power plants built just a few meters from the ocean with the thousands of years of history regarding fatal quakes & tsunamis?
The Fukashima plant is right on the coast - I am not a nuclear engineer, but that sounds like a problem waiting to happen.
Japan is part of the Ring of Fire.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2011, 10:23 AM
 
1,661 posts, read 2,785,504 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullman View Post
It wasn't the earthquake, but the tsunami that inflicted the fatal damage.
That being said, why were nuclear power plants built just a few meters from the ocean with the thousands of years of history reguarding fatal quakes & tsunamis?
Japan is part of the Ring of Fire.
This might be a valid conclusion, except that Fukushima II, a 4 reactor complex located closer to the epicenter of the quake and on the coast and hit by the tidal wave, and of the same design, does not have the same issues. They locate these things near water because it provides an easy way to cool the plants. In this case, heat exchangers dump the excess heat into the ocean.

In NC, Progress Energy owns a reactor complex, that is of the same design as Fukushima right, on the coast of NC. You can see this reactor if boat right off the coast. This is Nuke is right in the middle of hurricane alley. I should imagine that a direct hit of a CAT 5 hurricane would cause the same issues. Duke Energy is in the process of merging with Progress Energy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2011, 10:35 AM
 
Location: CLT native
4,280 posts, read 10,033,770 times
Reputation: 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
You can see this reactor if you take the ferry from the Outer Banks to the mainland. This is right in the middle of hurricane alley. I should imagine that a direct hit of a CAT 5 hurricane would cause the same issues.
The NC Outerbanks proper are Bodie Island to Cape Lookout National Seashore.


The only nuclear plant that I can think of is the Progress Energy plant near Southport which is 100+ miles further south.
It is not directly ON the coast like Fukashima, but located a few miles in the inlet between Caswell Beach & Baldhead Island.

GoogleMap.

Is there another one I am missing directly on the coast?

Multiple waves 50-100 feet AMSL (ala a Tsunami in the Ring of Fire) would bring more lasting devastation than a hurricane.

Last edited by mullman; 05-02-2011 at 10:50 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2011, 10:46 AM
 
1,661 posts, read 2,785,504 times
Reputation: 549
Yes it is Brunswick. Here is the map of where it is located. It's cooling facility is on Oak Island.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mullman View Post
Multiple waves 50-100 feet AMSL (ala a Tsunami in the Ring of Fire) would bring more lasting devastation than a hurricane.
As stated above, the waves that hit Japan were ~30-35 ft, and the plants continued with backup cooling for over 8 hours after the waves hit. The storm surge associated with Hugo was ~25 ft. With Katrina ~28 ft. I'm thinking that such a surge up the Cape Fear river, where there are no Tsunami walls, would be much more devastating.

Last edited by yantosh22; 05-02-2011 at 10:54 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top