U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-01-2011, 11:32 AM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 12,289,681 times
Reputation: 2698

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Good points. I think it will be a good venture for the area: i just don't believe 135 folks living in Charlotte will get jobs there.
But some will. What's important here is that Charlotte is truly building an energy cluster which insures that talents and skills related to the industry accumulate locally so that as time goes on, less and less skilled workers will have to be imported.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-01-2011, 11:39 AM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 12,289,681 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
Actually they don't care about Charlotte at all. It should be clear enough they were willing to go where ever there was the biggest handout. These things never panout BTW. I cited two examples above that were complete fails, but there are plenty others. Where was Beverly Purdue last week when IBM was laying off people all over NC including here in Charlotte? And last March and last Nov. etc etc. I bring her up because she was taking credit for an earlier state incentives given to them to bring jobs to NC.

There isn't one person yet who has responded, with some proof, that these taxpayer funded handouts do anything beyond lining the CEO and executive staff's pockets with money. (the ones who come up with these schemes)
The unfortunate thing is that you have to pay to play in every state, not just NC. I agree that all of this corporate welfare is ridiculous, but NC has done better than other states in investment in its workforce as opposed to economic strategies that are all about incentives, IMO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,016,830 times
Reputation: 22370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
But some will. What's important here is that Charlotte is truly building an energy cluster which insures that talents and skills related to the industry accumulate locally so that as time goes on, less and less skilled workers will have to be imported.
A very good point, also - and one which I hope will prove to be accurate. I don't see Charlotte becoming an energy cluster "for the nation" as others have saiid (in media, and on this forum) . . . but I do have hope that more jobs will be drawn to the area and more folks will be employed in the energy sector.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 12,289,681 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
A very good point, also - and one which I hope will prove to be accurate. I don't see Charlotte becoming an energy cluster "for the nation" as others have saiid (in media, and on this forum) . . . but I do have hope that more jobs will be drawn to the area and more folks will be employed in the energy sector.
It can just be a local cluster that's regionally competitive. Charlotte doesn't have to compete with Houston in that regard to be successful in this endeavor. But it's smart to development this cluster since there's already a strong base to start with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 02:22 PM
 
1,253 posts, read 4,160,796 times
Reputation: 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
Actually they don't care about Charlotte at all. It should be clear enough they were willing to go where ever there was the biggest handout. These things never panout BTW. I cited two examples above that were complete fails, but there are plenty others. Where was Beverly Purdue last week when IBM was laying off people all over NC including here in Charlotte? And last March and last Nov. etc etc. I bring her up because she was taking credit for an earlier state incentives given to them to bring jobs to NC.

There isn't one person yet who has responded, with some proof, that these taxpayer funded handouts do anything beyond lining the CEO and executive staff's pockets with money. (the ones who come up with these schemes)
Okay. I will take the bait. A few points:

1. Yes, they do care about Charlotte. It was very clear after listening to their CEO speak that Charlotte was the best fit for them. In part because of existing companies that were already based here who also happen to be their customers (Duke, Siemens, etc.) and in part because of UNC Charlotte's engineering school focused on energy production. SC has also been aggressive with their incentives so they probably would have matched the NC incentive package leading to the conclusion that it was more than money that brought them here.

2. The grant that they got from the state was the JDIG (Jobs Development Investment Grant). I am not entirely sure I am reading this right and it is probably wise to question the data source, but, according to their latest report which has data from 2009, the JDIG grantees created 12,518 jobs and the state made $48,838,773 from those employees income tax withholdings. The state's payment to those companies was $14,218,866 for a return (or profit) of $34 million dollars. The state more than tripled their investment plus created jobs. See attachment C: http://www.nccommerce.com/Portals/0/...l%20Report.pdf

(disclaimer: I assume I read those numbers correctly. This is outside my area of expertise)

3. There is a distinction between corporate welfare and job creation incentives. My personal opinion is that corporate welfare exists when large public corporations have to pay less taxes (on a percentage basis) than their employees do and that money is sent back to their investors in the form of dividends whereby the government is basically allowing the rich to get richer. I think this is wrong when companies (like big oil) are being subsidized by the tax payer at the same time they are making billions in profits.

Job incentive programs should be used to attract new companies to our area to create new jobs. I think this is a good investment for our state and I think the numbers I presented back that up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Pixley
3,521 posts, read 2,233,456 times
Reputation: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
Actually they don't care about Charlotte at all. It should be clear enough they were willing to go where ever there was the biggest handout. These things never panout BTW. I cited two examples above that were complete fails, but there are plenty others. Where was Beverly Purdue last week when IBM was laying off people all over NC including here in Charlotte? And last March and last Nov. etc etc. I bring her up because she was taking credit for an earlier state incentives given to them to bring jobs to NC.

There isn't one person yet who has responded, with some proof, that these taxpayer funded handouts do anything beyond lining the CEO and executive staff's pockets with money. (the ones who come up with these schemes)
This one seems to have panned out slightly better than OK - Merck Vaccine Plant in Durham, NC. Currently more than 150 jobs than orginally announced on the way to an additional 300.

Merck Vaccine Plant - Current Status:

"The facility employs more than 400 workers with approximately 230 people hired in 2010. Merck expects to hire another 250 staff in 2011, and by 2012 around 700 people are expected to be employed at the plant."

Merck Vaccine Plant, Durham, NC, USA - Pharmaceutical Technology

addtional info:

"Merck adding more jobs at Durham vaccine campus"
"Merck is moving ahead with ambitious hiring plans at a massive vaccine factory in Durham, with a goal of adding another 150 employees this year.
The new jobs will come on top of the 230 people Merck hired last year, increasing the current total to 450. The facility is preparing to package and eventually grow vaccines to protect against chicken pox and other diseases."

.biz - Merck adding more jobs at Durham vaccine campus | newsobserver.com blogs

Original Annoucement in 2004:
North Carolina's $36M Incentives Injection Catches Merck's $300M Vaccine Plant
"The operation will employ up to 300 workers, with annual salaries averaging between $55,000 and $60,000, according to state officials."

North Carolina's $36M Incentives Injection Catches Merck's $300M Vaccine Plant, Site Selection Online Insider
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,783 posts, read 8,411,807 times
Reputation: 4818
Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
Actually they don't care about Charlotte at all. It should be clear enough they were willing to go where ever there was the biggest handout. These things never panout BTW. I cited two examples above that were complete fails, but there are plenty others. Where was Beverly Purdue last week when IBM was laying off people all over NC including here in Charlotte? And last March and last Nov. etc etc. I bring her up because she was taking credit for an earlier state incentives given to them to bring jobs to NC.

There isn't one person yet who has responded, with some proof, that these taxpayer funded handouts do anything beyond lining the CEO and executive staff's pockets with money. (the ones who come up with these schemes)
We recently saw your proposed social experiment with gun laws (aka your interpretation of the 2nd amendment)... What would you do here? Because frankly "attracting business" is a global issue that's all about the "best deal" and "kickbacks". How do you solve this?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 04:10 PM
 
515 posts, read 905,999 times
Reputation: 269
I'm not sure why someone would suggest jobs for HS grads are preferable to engineering. What sort of business would you want to attract to an area. The harsh truth is a HS degree doesn't qualify you for much these days and things will only get worse....

However, I'm not sure many Americans will like working for a Japanese company. We need more European companies relocating here...6wks vacation, tons of holidays..now we are talking...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 04:12 PM
 
1,661 posts, read 2,785,813 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
We recently saw your proposed social experiment with gun laws (aka your interpretation of the 2nd amendment)... What would you do here? Because frankly "attracting business" is a global issue that's all about the "best deal" and "kickbacks". How do you solve this?
Well it's not about attracting business. It's about the corporate oligarchy playing games with the politicians to strip the tax payers of the few dollars they have left.

You guys seem to completely miss, though I gave an example above, that when one of these deals are handed out to a corporation, they simply lay off people elsewhere, and sometimes in the same state as IBM did, so that total employment doesn't change. The results speak for themselves. What about this economy is good and has been solved by government spending? I won't argue with other people's opinion this matter. If you believe it is good, then so be it, but there isn't any proof positive and plenty of proof negative.

What would I do? There is nothing I can do except to vote for politicians that won't play these disingenuous games. I simply can't fathom how people think it is a good idea to give handouts to corporations in a state where 1000s of teachers and other people will be laid off because the state funding is cut. At the macro level this is nothing but transfer of public assets to a select few at the corporate top.

(Mikey, if you had an issue with my 2nd amendment post, then man-up and debate me on it in that topic. Don't be a little, well you know, and produce pot shots in topics that had nothing to do with that.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 04:13 PM
 
1,661 posts, read 2,785,813 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Jedd View Post
This one seems to have panned out slightly better than OK - Merck Vaccine Plant in Durham, NC. Currently more than 150 jobs than orginally announced on the way to an additional 300.

Merck Vaccine Plant - Current Status:
You seemed to have completely missed that they also laid off this number of people in the Raleigh area when they bought another related company and promptly got rid of most of the employees there. Furthermore, they have announced another 15% general layoff.

I already explained why above.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:29 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top