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Old 06-22-2011, 10:39 AM
 
1,661 posts, read 2,787,453 times
Reputation: 549

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdub1968 View Post
....
People have the choice of dressing a certain way, and a private company has the right to enforce the dress code as they see fit. ....
Indeed they do but this isn't what happened. A private company did not bring the charge of trespassing, the CMPD did. When the police bring charges they have to do it in a equal manner. If there are others breaking this law too then they must be arrested too, or nobody can be arrested.

As I posted in this topic already, Civil Rights were violated in the past when establishments simply refused to serve Blacks, Women, etc, and then had the police enforce it. The US courts have said the police can't do this and it is as simple as that. The photos I posted, along with the Epicenter also stating on a website "there is no dress code" for this event, put the entire situation into doubt. It shouldn't be strange to you as this was how defacto racial discrimination existed in the South between the Civil War and the 1960s. When the federal government moved against this in the 1960s and early 1970s, it wasn't against the businesses. It was against the police forces that enabled it using their power to arrest. While I don't think the CMPD was trying to discriminate, they do have to respect this precedent and apply the law equally.

I would be willing to even accept the "opinion" that none of this applied, except this is why I can't. The establishment allowed Mr. Agnew to enter in the first place and took his money for a drink. At that point, I don't see how he could be accused of trespassing. The establishment was clearly interested in his money and didn't raise the dress code issue until after this.

Last edited by yantosh22; 06-22-2011 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Shakedown Street
1,452 posts, read 2,569,971 times
Reputation: 1185
Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
Indeed they do but this isn't what happened. A private company did not bring the charge of trespassing, the CMPD did. When the police bring charges they have to do it in a equal manner. If there are others breaking this law too then they must be arrested too, or nobody can be arrested.
Here's an article for you:

https://privateofficernews.wordpress...-charlotte-nc/

A couple key points:
There is a dress code posted in the Pavillion at Epicentre. Channel 9 took a photo of a sign that clearly states, “hats turned backward aren’t allowed.”


Police told Channel 9 that they don’t condone any kind of discrimination but they have to enforce the law.
“Once he refused to leave, we have to honor the owner’s right to have him leave the property,” said Capt. Jeff Estes.

As for the web site that says there is not a dress code - is that an official site for the EpiCentre? I don't think it is and can not be construed as fact in this argument.

Last edited by rdub1968; 06-22-2011 at 11:13 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:11 AM
 
1,661 posts, read 2,787,453 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdub1968 View Post
.....

As for the web site that says there is not a dress code - is that an official site for the EpiCentre? I don't think it is and can not be construed ias fact n this argument.
Yes. LKNFun is a sponsor of Alive After Five. You can see one of their signs in one of the photos. He was arrested at that specific event. The photos of I posted of others breaking those rules are also from this event and this year. I would say this is as official as it gets.

BTW, Mr. Agnew isn't saying that he didn't violate the dress code. His complaint was in how it was applied and how the CMPD handled it.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,351,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
You are barking up the wrong tree. I am a female & old enough to remember when females were barred from many places. I remember trying to get a job from segregated help wanted ads & I have had personnel people (now renamed as HR) look me in the eye & deny me employment for being female.

Get over yourself. If you are denied entrance or asked to leave a club for breaking a dress code, you either comply or leave. You go somewhere else & spend your money there. That's how you take your business elsewhere.

Discrimination is alive & well, but has taken on different forms. In the work place, I now get "You are overqualified." That's code for you're older than what we want. I move on. I see no point in dwelling on it.

But this is about Mr Agnew, not you or me. He admitted that he went to the Epicenter repeatedly & each time was approached for breaking a rule. I would have taken a hint & gone elsewhere, but he didn't.

Mr. Agnew was allowed in by a bouncer, as were other individuals who apparently were breaking the dress code. He was approached & told to turn his hat around & refused. He admits this, so it's not up for debate. Why was he approached? He is claiming that it was racial. I was not there, but based on my own experience, my guess was that he called attention to himself. I sincerely doubt that Mr Agnew was the only black person in the place & that they decided to get him out for that reason. I've been in enough business establishments & seen an individual being rowdy, or rude, or whatever, & I have seen that person approached & asked to quiet down or make a change (ex: Please remove your hat.) As I said in a previous post, I have known several men who did stints as bouncers. I have been told that that is a crowd control technique.
Get over myself? LOL... you can't jump into a discussion that was about my experience and then tell me to get over myself. You tell me to get over myself and then run off a ton of experiences you've had in the past. LOL... If you were denied something you didn't choose to take your business elsewhere because the choice was made for you. That was my point. I know I can spend my money where I choose but if I choose to go somewhere and get denied entrance while seeing others get in I can speak on it.

Anyway... if you are admitting discrimination is alive and well then why are you jumping on people for pointing out discrimination? I thought that was what this board was for?

Please take your own advice and get over YOURSELF and your experiences and discuss the situation at hand without injecting fantasies of how Mr. Agnew drew attention to himself.

Last edited by Feltdesigner; 06-22-2011 at 11:33 AM..
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,351,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdub1968 View Post
Wow, this is one of the strangest things I have read on this site in a long time. Black people choose to dress the way they do, they are not born that way. Agnew was not born wearing a hat backwards, was he?

People have the choice of dressing a certain way, and a private company has the right to enforce the dress code as they see fit.

And again, a picture only tells a snapshot in time. If those others were wearing a hat backwards and were told to turn them around, they would most likely comply if they wanted to stay.

How do you know everyone else wearing their hat forwards in the same pictures were not already told to turn them around?

You really need to let this go, you are no legal expert.
Black people don't pull their clothes from one big ole closet in West Charlotte. Hip hop fashion is worn by more than black folk...

A picture is definitely a moment in time but they are used all the time in court. If a person can present 10 photo's of people with their hat on backwards I think they have a case. These photo's establish that hat backwards fashion is rampant in the Epicenter and the officers aren't doing their job as well as they should.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:53 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,888 posts, read 27,167,930 times
Reputation: 8965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Get over myself? LOL... you can't jump into a discussion that was about my experience and then tell me to get over myself. You tell me to get over myself and then run off a ton of experiences you had. LOL...


Anyway... if you are admitting discrimination is alive and well then why are you jumping on people for pointing out discrimination?

Please take your own advice and get over YOURSELF and your experiences and discuss the situation at hand without injecting fantasies of how Mr. Agnew drew attention to himself.
I was in the discussion before you. Go back & check.

You dragged up discrimination about females in an academic sense, after your personal litany in what I perceived as sarcasm (asking how you can take your business elsewhere). I cited real life examples, that used to be perfectly legal.

This was not discrimination, in my opinion. The discussion is, after all, about Mr. Agnew. Not a single person in this discussion has said, "I was there & saw what happened". Not one. . . This is based on Mr. Agnew's side, where he stated that he saw the dress code. He chose to adjust his cap, in violation of the dress code instead of taking it off. He admitted to refusing a request to change his cap. He admitted to previous problems at the same place. Nothing has been said about why he was approached, but I stated why I believe he was. He called attention to himself.

There are 3 sides to every arguement. Based on one side, the reality of what happened is up for speculation. However, instead of simply changing his cap, taking off the cap, or leaving, Mr. Agnew argued the point & refused. When the police arrived, Mr. Agnew again had the same 3 choices & again ran his mouth. This is all acknowledged by Mr. Agnew.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,783 posts, read 8,416,909 times
Reputation: 4818
Now we're just feeding trolls and an attention $#@@re...

Going to require elementary school tactics here since it's clear that arguing this is giving these people exactly what they want... I completely understand why anyone official involved here would just ignore it. Continuing this ridiculous argument any more is foolish.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Middletown, Ohio
1,732 posts, read 2,295,623 times
Reputation: 6474
Lightbulb Southbound, You Don't Need To Defend Yourself...

Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
I was in the discussion before you. Go back & check.

You dragged up discrimination about females in an academic sense, after your personal litany in what I perceived as sarcasm (asking how you can take your business elsewhere). I cited real life examples, that used to be perfectly legal.

This was not discrimination, in my opinion. The discussion is, after all, about Mr. Agnew. Not a single person in this discussion has said, "I was there & saw what happened". Not one. . . This is based on Mr. Agnew's side, where he stated that he saw the dress code. He chose to adjust his cap, in violation of the dress code instead of taking it off. He admitted to refusing a request to change his cap. He admitted to previous problems at the same place. Nothing has been said about why he was approached, but I stated why I believe he was. He called attention to himself.

There are 3 sides to every arguement. Based on one side, the reality of what happened is up for speculation. However, instead of simply changing his cap, taking off the cap, or leaving, Mr. Agnew argued the point & refused. When the police arrived, Mr. Agnew again had the same 3 choices & again ran his mouth. This is all acknowledged by Mr. Agnew.
Any further...I read the post referenced, and, like this one, it was informed, precise, and to the point...you owe no apologies, AT ALL...

Lemme throw my bona fides out real quick...those of you here in the Charlotte forum who've seen any of my posts, know that I will occasionally state my race for the record (I'm black)...I do this because I don't mention it anywhere else on my profile, and I want it known upfront when I weigh in on any threads or matters having to do with race, no matter which side of a discussion I end up on...now, having said that, I say this---

Judging from the accounts I've read in this thread, it has jack-diddy-nada-nuthin to do with race...period...this was a case of someone clearly not being wise enough to cut his losses, shut the **** up, and deal with the situation like an intelligent individual...he was asked to flip his hat, and when he didn't, and started flapping his lips, well, he had to deal with the law

Being black, if I feel that a wrong has occurred, or if there WAS discrimination present, then I'll be honest, maybe my tone here might have been different...but sometimes, when folk holler 'FIRE!', it's usually nothing more than someone lighting a match---ergo, I say again, I don't think it was racial at all...Mind you, like Southbound, I wasn't present when the incident occurred, so I have to base my opinion here solely on media accounts of the matter, and the postings of my fellow forumites...I might be dead wrong here, but I'll say it, because I've seen it---some cases of howling about 'racism' simply boil down to, someone deciding that mouth and attitude will solve a situation, and when other (black AND white) folk stand up and say 'stick that nonsense where the sun don't shine' well, then it gets ugly...

Southbound, you were absolutely correct in recounting your OWN experiences with gender-based discrimination, for the edification of the gentleman barking at you about 'posting fantasies'...get the **** outta here with that...she (you) was posting straight-up, boots-on-the-ground, skin in the game, real life experiences, and I don't see a dang thing about a fantasy anywhere...she was stating for the record that she had been discriminated against, and she did it in a concise, well-informed manner, possibly tying her story in with any perceived discrimination young Mr Agnew might have encountered...thus, she owes no one an apology...a little more respect, and a little less 'yeah, whatever...' might be in order here, don'tcha think?

To close, I say this...the squeaky wheel don't always get the grease---sometimes, unless you have concrete and steel PROOF that someone discriminated racially or otherwise, then follow whatever rules are germane at that location, zip your pie-hole, and b***h about it later...good conduct, intelligence, and manners, will trump mouth, attitude, and in some cases 'yer a racist!', 24/7/365...end of story

Last edited by captaincatfish; 06-22-2011 at 01:02 PM.. Reason: Emphasizing a particularly thorny point
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Shakedown Street
1,452 posts, read 2,569,971 times
Reputation: 1185
captaincatfish, you should be a mentor in your community. Your posts are based on sense, not emotion - at least what I have read of them.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,351,910 times
Reputation: 5231
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincatfish View Post
Any further...I read the post referenced, and, like this one, it was informed, precise, and to the point...you owe no apologies, AT ALL...

Lemme throw my bona fides out real quick...those of you here in the Charlotte forum who've seen any of my posts, know that I will occasionally state my race for the record (I'm black)...I do this because I don't mention it anywhere else on my profile, and I want it known upfront when I weigh in on any threads or matters having to do with race, no matter which side of a discussion I end up on...now, having said that, I say this---

Judging from the accounts I've read in this thread, it has jack-diddy-nada-nuthin to do with race...period...this was a case of someone clearly not being wise enough to cut his losses, shut the **** up, and deal with the situation like an intelligent individual...he was asked to flip his hat, and when he didn't, and started flapping his lips, well, he had to deal with the law

Being black, if I feel that a wrong has occurred, or if there WAS discrimination present, then I'll be honest, maybe my tone here might have been different...but sometimes, when folk holler 'FIRE!', it's usually nothing more than someone lighting a match---ergo, I say again, I don't think it was racial at all...Mind you, like Southbound, I wasn't present when the incident occurred, so I have to base my opinion here solely on media accounts of the matter, and the postings of my fellow forumites...

Southbound, you were absolutely correct in recounting your OWN experiences with gender-based discrimination, for the edification of the gentleman barking at you about 'posting fantasies'...get the **** outta here with that...she (you) was posting straight-up, boots-on-the-ground, skin in the game, real life experiences, and I don't see a dang thing about a fantasy anywhere...she was stating for the record that she had been discriminated against, and she did it in a concise, well-informed manner, possibly tying her story in with any perceived discrimination young Mr Agnew might have encountered...thus, she owes no one an apology...a little more respect, and a little less 'yeah, whatever...' might be in order here, don'tcha think?

First off... when I entered this forum someone asked if there were black bouncers..

I said yes there are and one wouldn't let me into Mez because I had on sneakers but he let 6 other white guys in with sneakers and ripped jeans. Someone then responded with getting over it and taking my business elsewhere....

it was at this point that I started giving examples of how it's impossible to "choose to go elsewhere" when you can't even get into the place.

After that she tells me to "get over myself" while pointing out 5 instances of her experiences...

She posted fantasies when she says "based on my experience I think Mr. Agnew drew attention to himself or was belligerent." How does she know this? She doesn't...

lastly.. who cares if she was here first. If she quotes me I have a right to respond to what she is quoting and if she is misinformed on what my post is about she should ask for clarification instead of telling me to get over myself.

Good day black man!
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