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There aren't any jobs left in the USA that require calculus or chemistry now. You have to go to China for that. I think they should bring back home economics, auto mechanics, etc. Stuff that people can use to actually get a job these days.
I have to disagree with you. Surely, the person who was #1 in her class had met with guidance counselors during her timein hs. I expect the guidance counsleors to prepare a schedule that has student graduating in 4 years if not sooner. At least that is how it was done when i was in school. The school tracked you into a slot, you choose electives, but the other selections were what you needed to graduate.
You're talking the #1 student in her class. Not the last one of the bunch. I place complete blame on the school and guidance department.
I just think this blame the parent/student refrain is silly in this instance. We're talking public education and this is the guidance counselor's JOB. Geesh
Yes, employees fell down on their jobs! Disgraceful.
But there is something called "personal responsibility" . . . and it is an acquired habit.
Kids can sure tell ya what it takes to get a driver's license.
This seems awfully harsh on the kid and very forgiving of the people being paid to prevent such things. There is an expectation that if a school tells you that you are going to graduate and even goes as far as names you the valedictorian, then you might end up concluding you don't understand the rules for graduating. And, maybe the party even questioned it and was told not to worry.
This seems awfully harsh on the kid and very forgiving of the people being paid to prevent such things. There is an expectation that if a school tells you that you are going to graduate and even goes as far as names you the valedictorian, then you might end up concluding you don't understand the rules for graduating. And, maybe the party even questioned it and was told not to worry.
Promoting personal responsibility is never harsh Ani is right, the students bear some responsibility for where they find themselves right now.
Way back in the stone age, my high school didn't even have guidance counselors to keep track of our credits, acheivements or accomplishments.
Heck, we didn't even have anyone to tell us when to take the ACT/SAT or how to apply to colleges, but we STILL managed to get it all done.
This tendency over the last 25 years to baby our young people and do everything for them has been to the detriment of our entire society
Betting the incompetant school employees who failed so miserably to do their own jobs were never taught the concept of personal responsibility either
This isn't about personal responsiblity. It is about paid educators doing the job they were paid for. The kid was # 1 in her class. I know a yound lady that graduated early from Garringer 3 years ago with close to a 4.0. She recvd a 4 year ride to one of the state schools. She wasn't #1 in her class.
The SAT and ACT are elective activites. The sole purpose of going to HS is to graduate. I'll go along with folks thinking the student should have double checked behind the paid admistrators, but the blame lies with the school.
ALso, the minimum college prep requorements add up to 21 units, not 24 which is what you need to graduate in CMS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovesMountains
Promoting personal responsibility is never harsh Ani is right, the students bear some responsibility for where they find themselves right now.
Way back in the stone age, my high school didn't even have guidance counselors to keep track of our credits, acheivements or accomplishments.
Heck, we didn't even have anyone to tell us when to take the ACT/SAT or how to apply to colleges, but we STILL managed to get it all done.
This tendency over the last 25 years to baby our young people and do everything for them has been to the detriment of our entire society
Betting the incompetant school employees who failed so miserably to do their own jobs were never taught the concept of personal responsibility either
Every high school student knows what courses they need to graduate. That information is readily available and it their JOB to know what they have to do to graduate. It is not the guidance counselors job to babysit high school students. Part of the problem with kids now is they want to blame everyone else if something goes wrong.
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11 students were involved. It was the personal responsibility of those students to make sure that they had their ducks in order. It was the personal responsibility of the parents or guardians of those students to nag them ("Are you sure?"). It was the personal responsibility of guidance counselors to check & cross-check what was needed for 4 years. It was the personal responsibility of the administrators to have competent personnel at the school. It was the personal responsibility of the principal to communicate the problems that were found. They all failed to take personal responsibility, & this was the result.
It is not the guidance counselors job to babysit high school students.
Then simple, get rid of these positions. No need for the taxpayers to fund guidance counselors who don't provide any guidance.
How many graduates did this school have ? 70? It shouldn't be any issue at all for these counselors to have in their job description, a few hours time spent looking at the records of potential graduates to see if they qualify. What does this take for 70 graduates, an afternoon and a $5 calculator? I'm not buying this major free pass given to school administrators by placing all the blame on "personal responsibility" on the student.
Students don't learn personal responsibility when their authority figures have no responsibility either, and especially when they are being paid by the community to give "guidance". There is certainly no promotion of such things if this is the result. Get rid of these guidance councilors and especially get rid of the bosses of these people if this is all that we can expect.
Last edited by yantosh22; 06-26-2011 at 04:12 AM..
11 students were involved. It was the personal responsibility of those students to make sure that they had their ducks in order. It was the personal responsibility of the parents or guardians of those students to nag them ("Are you sure?"). It was the personal responsibility of guidance counselors to check & cross-check what was needed for 4 years. It was the personal responsibility of the administrators to have competent personnel at the school. It was the personal responsibility of the principal to communicate the problems that were found. They all failed to take personal responsibility, & this was the result.
Yes, so true. There is enough shame and blame to go around to everyone in this situation.
Seems we are not preparing our children for college (and life in general!) if we are not teaching them to step up and have some responsibility and oversight for their own destinies. June Grads who are college bound will find themselves within 90 days of graduation in college, where you better believe no one is gonna hold your hand about course selection and graduation requirements. Yes, there are advisors, but it is still up to the student to take advantage of those services and have oversight of what is needed as far as course requirements for particular majors/minors - and for graduation credits.
Absolutely - this is an outrageous situation. But some personal involvement from the students themselves and their parents would have caught the error - or at least raised some eyebrows so that questions were asked.
I was asking about my son's course of study all the way through high school and we reviewed his college credits every single semester, even tho he was consulting with his advisor. And yes, there were plenty of questions along the way. I was paying for those hours! I was invested in his education.
Maybe if public school were not "free," parents as well as students would feel the need to be more invested in the process.
Again, not excusing incompetency on staff's part! But raising our children really does take a village, especially when the school in the village has slackers on the payroll, lol.
ETA: I find it really odd that the school Valedictorian didn't have a college question her transcript. ?????
Last edited by brokensky; 06-26-2011 at 05:52 AM..
Reason: typo
Then simple, get rid of these positions. No need for the taxpayers to fund guidance counselors who don't provide any guidance.
How many graduates did this school have ? 70? It shouldn't be any issue at all for these counselors to have in their job description, a few hours time spent looking at the records of potential graduates to see if they qualify. What does this take for 70 graduates, an afternoon and a $5 calculator? I'm not buying this major free pass given to school administrators by placing all the blame on "personal responsibility" on the student.
Students don't learn personal responsibility when their authority figures have no responsibility either, and especially when they are being paid by the community to give "guidance". There is certainly no promotion of such things if this is the result. Get rid of these guidance councilors and especially get rid of the bosses of these people if this is all that we can expect.
Saying that anyone on this forum is giving administrators and staff a "pass" by shifting responsibility to the students' shoulders is a total misrepresentation of the discussion.
May I add - in every other area of society - ignorance of the law is no excuse. There IS personal responsibility and teaching personal responsibility is part of education, both from parents and from their teachers. Learning to hand in an assignment on time, putting aside time to study, reaching goals in general - that is all part of learning personal responsibility. And having that high school diploma in hand means to employers that the graduate figured out how to get out of high school successfully, so they at least know how to plan to reach a goal (even if they don't have many other workplace skills).
IRS isn't gonna care if you were ignorant about filing your taxes; the court isn't gonna care if you decided since you didn't have money that month, you weren't gonna pay your child support; employers aren't gonna give a flip that you overslept and were late for work.
So yes, part of becoming a mature, educated person is learning personal responsibility. Otherwise, people are slaves to the mediocrity, incompetency (and at times, nefarious intentions) of others, including the government. And unless we learn some personal responsibility, we end up relying on others to take care of us . . . wh/ is a step towards failure, fer shur.
Last edited by brokensky; 06-26-2011 at 05:56 AM..
Reason: typo
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Ani is right, the students bear some responsibility for where they find themselves right now.
