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Old 06-29-2011, 02:34 PM
 
72 posts, read 238,786 times
Reputation: 51

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty View Post
No that is not what I am saying......and will not repeat myself again. Reading with comprehension is a beautiful thing.
So if the police officer walks up and says, "I am arresting you for trespassing."

And the customer says, "Why am I considered to be trespassing?"

Cop "Because you have your hat on sideways."

Customer "Oh, no. I'll turn it around right away Officer. Will I be allowed to stay if I do that."

Cop "Well, since you're only trespassing when you're not in compliance with the dress code. And you would be in compliance with the dress code if you turned your hat around, I guess you could stay."

Customer "Thank you Officer"


How does that differ from

Cop "I need you to turn your hat around or I'm going to have to arrest you for trespassing."

or

Cop "Please turn your hat around"

Customer "Why?"

Cop "Because if you don't, I'll have to arrest you for trespassing"

or

Cop "Hey, Dude with the tude!! Put your hat on right or I'll cuff you and stuff you!! NOW!!"

or

Cop "I'm sorry, sir. There must be some sort of misunderstanding. You must not be aware that this establishment considers all guests wearing their hat backwards to be trespassing. In accordance with that all have to arrest you for trespass. I do apologize for any inconvenience that might cause you, Sir."


Really? This is the paramount issue. This is what turns this into a civil right issue? Really?

I can assure you the citation he received said, "Trespassing" not "failure to turn his cap around" and that is all the matters.

Last edited by Plateau; 06-29-2011 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Near the water
8,231 posts, read 11,582,216 times
Reputation: 3877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plateau View Post
So if the police officer walks up and says, "I am arresting you for trespassing."

And the customer says, "Why am I considered to be trespassing?"

Cop "Because you have your hat on sideways."

Customer "Oh, no. I'll turn it around right away Officer. Will I be allowed to stay if I do that."

Cop "Well, since you're only trespassing when you're not in compliance with the dress code. And you would be in compliance with the dress code if you turned your hat around, I guess you could stay."

Customer "Thank you Officer"


How does that differ from

Cop "I need you to turn your hat around or I'm going to have to arrest you for trespassing."

or

Cop "Please turn your hat around"

Customer "Why?"

Cop "Because if you don't, I'll have to arrest you for trespassing"

or

Cop "Hey, Dude with the tude!! Put your hat on right or I'll cuff you and stuff you!! NOW!!"

or

Cop "I'm sorry, sir. There must be some sort of misunderstanding. You must not be aware that this establishment considers all guests wearing their hat backwards to be trespassing. In accordance with that all have to arrest you for trespass. I do apologize for any inconvenience that might cause you, Sir."


Really? This is the paramount issue. This is what turns this into a civil right issue? Really?

Yeah really!!! As suggested earlier perhaps learning what they role is of Law Enforcement along with what its role isn't.

They are trained in what they can and can not say for a reason.
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:54 PM
 
72 posts, read 238,786 times
Reputation: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty View Post
Yeah really!!! As suggested earlier perhaps learning what they role is of Law Enforcement along with what its role isn't.

They are trained in what they can and can not say for a reason.

As I added, I can assure you a citation issued says, "Trespassing" not "Failure to turn his cap around" How do any of the above word choices by the cop alter that?
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Near the water
8,231 posts, read 11,582,216 times
Reputation: 3877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plateau View Post
As I added, I can assure you a citation issued says, "Trespassing" not "Failure to turn his cap around" How do any of the above word choices by the cop alter that?
What part of what a LEO can and can not say do you not understand? We are not talking about issuing an actual citation, we are discussing what info has been put out to the public. Perhaps you don't know what civil rights even are?
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Old 06-29-2011, 03:07 PM
 
72 posts, read 238,786 times
Reputation: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty View Post
What part of what a LEO can and can not say do you not understand? We are not talking about issuing an actual citation, we are discussing what info has been put out to the public. Perhaps you don't know what civil rights even are?

I'm getting dizzy from the circular conversation. I need to lay down. Writing comprehensibly is a good thing, too. When I see a civil rights issue addressed in this thread I'll let you know.
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Old 06-29-2011, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Near the water
8,231 posts, read 11,582,216 times
Reputation: 3877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plateau View Post
I'm getting dizzy from the circular conversation. I need to lay down. Writing comprehensibly is a good thing, too. When I see a civil rights issue addressed in this thread I'll let you know.
No need, I have already seen the point of the OP.
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Old 06-29-2011, 05:01 PM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 12,289,681 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by njmdpanc View Post
What makes the Epicenter dress code racist? There shouldn't even be a discussion or investigation.
I have been there many times and have seen people of all color. No one seems to be shut out.

However, I do feel something is wrong when I see these stations on tv BET (Black Entertainment Channel) or BSC (Black Shopping Channel). The names alone imply racism.
LOL, what in the world does that have to do with this particular incident?????
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:27 PM
 
359 posts, read 503,366 times
Reputation: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty View Post
BUT CMPD can not approach him and ask him to move/turn around the cap.
That is the point here.
Why not? Can an officer not ask somebody to take their hands out of their pockets? Can an officer not ask somebody to back up so they can continue their duties?

They can ask whatever they want. Citizens who know their rights do not have to abide by all requests. If an officer approaches somebody and asks for ID the person doesn't have to give it to them. But guess what CMPD is not infringing on any rights by asking for ID.

The point here is that CMPD has no probable cause for an arrest on Mr. Agnew in this case for "not wearing a hat properly". Nobody is going to debate that.

However, that is not why Mr. Agnew was arrested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty View Post
No it is NOT! That is not their job.
A LEO reciting trespassing regs to a particular business is one thing but to approach an individual and ask them to remove/move or adjust a cap, they CAN NOT do.

The job of a LEO is to enforce the public safety laws not enforce private business regulations. HUGE difference, HUGE!

But then again most people think it is the job of LEO's to keep them safe, it is not.
As I posted above, they can ask whatever they want. They were enforcing public laws which are directed to protect the property/business of citizens and businesses.

I'm pretty sure that if a CMPD officer saw you about to get robbed and did not step up and take action they would be cited for termination and written up for cowardice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Y'know, I had a thought. I'm guessing that Mr Agnew is keeping this up for a reason, unrelated to race.

How much do you want to bet that Mr Agnew gets to court & his attorney says, "Your Honor, I petition for the charges to be dismissed on the grounds that Mr. Agnew can not get a fair trial. This is so well known that we can not find an unbiased jury in Mecklenburg County."
This is a misdemeanor which means it will be in District Court, so no jury. Just the judge, prosecution, and defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yantosh22 View Post
Everything you said is correct and this is the point. If the CMPD had not pulled this stunt, the city, the media, and the CRC would not be involved as it would then just be a private matter between the Epicenter and Mr. Agnew. Both have options in the civil court.

I don't expect the CMPD to be investigated. If this sort of thing was going to happen they would have started with the Chief of Police lying about having a college diploma, looked at what happened with the officers that commited serious crimes, performed an thorough look at the complete botch job surrounding the girl who died of drug overdoses, so forth and so on. Nothing will change with the current government in office.
CMPD did nothing wrong. If you want to point the finger it solely falls on Epicentre and their "rules".

CMPD was notified of a person Epicentre wanted to leave the property. To make a "ban" official you must have an officer witness an agent of the business verbally ban that subject from the premises. At that point CMPD advises the person they need to leave now. If that person refuses to leave, they are in violation of NC law (2nd degree trespass).

It's pretty simple.

If you want to say the Epicenter is racially discriminating through their dress code and enforcement, go right ahead and get on that soap box.

Do not bring CMPD into it as they have no fault in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty View Post
Yeah really!!! As suggested earlier perhaps learning what they role is of Law Enforcement along with what its role isn't.

They are trained in what they can and can not say for a reason.
They are hired by Epicenter to help remove those subjects that Epicenter no longer wants on their property. The Epicenter is a private business/property and they withhold the right to ban or ask anybody they want to leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plateau View Post
As I added, I can assure you a citation issued says, "Trespassing" not "Failure to turn his cap around" How do any of the above word choices by the cop alter that?
2nd degree trespass to be exact!



I hope that I made some sense to people. Just another example:

Yanatosh owns a home with a yard and driveway. That property is his/hers and guess what, Yanatosh you can ban any dang person you want from that property! The procedure:

1. Person must be on your property
2. CMPD officer present
3. You must be present and tell the subject that they are not allowed on your property and do not have your permission to be back on the property

If they refuse to leave: arrested
If they come back the next day:
--Police present: arrested!
--You see it and call police but they leave: you can go to the magistrate and obtain warrants!

Guess what? You don't even need a reason to ban somebody from your property!!! You can say "I don't like your shoes I want you banned" and CMPD will do what you say.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Jersey City
398 posts, read 754,630 times
Reputation: 477
^ Wait for Chromekitty to come in here and explain to you what a LEO or CAPRI can and can not do!

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Old 06-29-2011, 11:27 PM
 
8,402 posts, read 20,278,925 times
Reputation: 6774
Quote:
Originally Posted by djshinodalp View Post
^ Wait for Chromekitty to come in here and explain to you what a LEO or CAPRI can and can not do!

Capri?
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