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Old 10-07-2011, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,794 posts, read 9,388,560 times
Reputation: 5270

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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Oh lord. . . just a few points.

Concerning unions. Unions did not kill Detroit. There were many factors involved. Unions did not kill the American automobile industry. Management did that all by themselves. When I graduated from college in 1973 I wanted a small car. The American choices were the Vega, the Pinto & the Gremlin. I bought a German made Opel (GM subsidiary in Germany) Then there was the diesel debacle. The Europeans were building good diesel cars, the American versions were god-awful. Ford finally figured out that they could sell small cars if they made a decent one, so they brought one over from Germany. It is not the union's fault if the management could not figure out that the way to compete with the foreign car manufacturers who were selling small cars was to build a decent small car.

The public unions in NJ have nothing to do with the 2 main problems there. One is the Abbott districts, & the other is Christie Whitman's voodoo economics that put a giant hole in the budget & they have been using pension money to plug the hole for all of these years.

People buying houses that they can't afford. . .that's a case where both parties are to blame. When I bought my first house I was told that I could afford more, based on projected future wages. I said no. Sh*t happens. I bought based on what I could afford at that time. I knew what I could afford & they could not force me to do otherwise. I felt no need to get greedy about what might happen.
Great points...

States used pension money for other things and then turned around and said the pensions were killing the budget.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:44 PM
 
Location: CLT native
4,280 posts, read 10,055,476 times
Reputation: 2270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Final49er View Post
the greed, recklessness and power of Wall Street. Now is the time for the president and Congress to follow that light – and act. The future of our economy is at stake.
As long as the thread is going in that direction, I'll add this little gem.
You'll love this guy.



trader on BBC predicts global collapse
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,551 posts, read 9,289,462 times
Reputation: 2121
In my mind, it's part of the hipocrisy of this misguided movement....having groups involved with their own level of greed, unions being a decent example, being a part of your rally. It's foolish because that level of greed is corrupt (labor unions spending far more money on the operating expenses of the union than they do on getting better salaries and benefits for employees...a real crappy investment/return ratio, especially if you're working the post office these days), yet since it's not totally in your face I guess that makes it okay.

Get rid of the left wing/socialist agenda and they may have me and much of mainstream America here. I would believe the average American has a legit concern in regards to corporate America and it's stronghold on government. When moveon.org, UTA (and other unions busing people in), Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein, and Barry O throw their weight behind this, I can only see this as being a movement intended to energize an extreme left liberal base on the verge of losing more seats in the next election.

You can be the politician offered the bribe, but ultimately it's the potential recipient who has the ability to turn it down. You can be offered the exotic mortgage but you can also do your homework and not accept it. You can look at your finances and say "I can't afford this", and not spend the money... something DC has failed to do over and over and over again. The obscene level of government spending is okay, as opposed to putting some of that money BACK in the pockets of the America they claim to be defending.

They're barking so far up the wrong tree.

#occupywhitehouse
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Ayrsley
4,714 posts, read 8,480,078 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
People buying houses that they can't afford. . .that's a case where both parties are to blame.
I disagree...the majority of the blame lies with the person who signed on the dotted line and agreed to take such a foolish loan out in the first place. The banks never held a gun to anyone's head. But in a day and age where a lawn mower company has to put a warning label on their mowers warning people not to stick their hands into the rotating blades (else they get sued for failing to provide said warning) it's par for the course...no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions.

If you took out a home loan you couldn't afford, were barely living paycheck to paycheck to pay your mortgage and then got foreclosed on when you missed a paycheck...you are one of those responsible for our current economic mess.

If you used your house as an ATM to take out money for vacations and other frivolous "fun" stuff and then found out you owed more than you could afford...you are one of those responsible.

If you made $40k per year, bought a $50k car and had it repoed for non-payment...you are one of those responsible.

If you racked up mountains of credit card debt living beyond your means...you are one of the those responsible.

There is a lot of blame that can be found right on good ol' Main Street.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Ayrsley
4,714 posts, read 8,480,078 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
There is no way something that was implemented in 1977 or 1986 was the reason for this mess. We didn't have global money crashes in the 80's or 90's.
This situation built up over a long period of time...it didn't happen overnight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
funny how the buyer, most of them first time home owners are expected to have all the knowledge in the world
Not all the knowledge in the world, but they should have some level of knowledge. If they didn't bother to make the efforts to educate themselves to some extent, then they were idiots.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,794 posts, read 9,388,560 times
Reputation: 5270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tober138 View Post
This situation built up over a long period of time...it didn't happen overnight.



Not all the knowledge in the world, but they should have some level of knowledge. If they didn't bother to make the efforts to educate themselves to some extent, then they were idiots.
OK, some of them were idiots... what does this say about wall st. who bet time and time again on these idiots and crashed the market? You can't blame the idiots for being "idiots" Wall st. used these idiots to push the market over the edge.

We get it, people bought more than they could afford... that's one transaction. Wall St. bet on these inflated numbers over and over again. Banks around the world were trading idiot loans over and over again.

You are mad at the "idiot" who made one bad transaction while defending the banks who bundled these bad transactions and sold them an infinite amount of times?
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:29 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,994 posts, read 27,287,306 times
Reputation: 9019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tober138 View Post
I disagree...the majority of the blame lies with the person who signed on the dotted line and agreed to take such a foolish loan out in the first place. The banks never held a gun to anyone's head. But in a day and age where a lawn mower company has to put a warning label on their mowers warning people not to stick their hands into the rotating blades (else they get sued for failing to provide said warning) it's par for the course...no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions.

If you took out a home loan you couldn't afford, were barely living paycheck to paycheck to pay your mortgage and then got foreclosed on when you missed a paycheck...you are one of those responsible for our current economic mess.

If you used your house as an ATM to take out money for vacations and other frivolous "fun" stuff and then found out you owed more than you could afford...you are one of those responsible.

If you made $40k per year, bought a $50k car and had it repoed for non-payment...you are one of those responsible.

If you racked up mountains of credit card debt living beyond your means...you are one of the those responsible.

There is a lot of blame that can be found right on good ol' Main Street.
I agree totally, Tober, but it is shared blame, just a majority falls on the person who signed on the dotted line. I know that when I bought my first house I turned down the various buy a nicer place options more than once. Each time it was a bit more of a hard sell.

I wasn't buying the house of my dreams. I bought what I could afford. I saved money for years & put almost half down. I am a baby boomer & my parents were Depression kids. I was raised to live within my means, & skew it lower than necessary, in case you woke up one day & realized that you'd just stepped into a pile.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,794 posts, read 9,388,560 times
Reputation: 5270
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH1970 View Post
In my mind, it's part of the hipocrisy of this misguided movement....having groups involved with their own level of greed, unions being a decent example, being a part of your rally. It's foolish because that level of greed is corrupt (labor unions spending far more money on the operating expenses of the union than they do on getting better salaries and benefits for employees...a real crappy investment/return ratio, especially if you're working the post office these days), yet since it's not totally in your face I guess that makes it okay.

Get rid of the left wing/socialist agenda and they may have me and much of mainstream America here. I would believe the average American has a legit concern in regards to corporate America and it's stronghold on government. When moveon.org, UTA (and other unions busing people in), Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein, and Barry O throw their weight behind this, I can only see this as being a movement intended to energize an extreme left liberal base on the verge of losing more seats in the next election.

You can be the politician offered the bribe, but ultimately it's the potential recipient who has the ability to turn it down. You can be offered the exotic mortgage but you can also do your homework and not accept it. You can look at your finances and say "I can't afford this", and not spend the money... something DC has failed to do over and over and over again. The obscene level of government spending is okay, as opposed to putting some of that money BACK in the pockets of the America they claim to be defending.

They're barking so far up the wrong tree.

#occupywhitehouse
Hold on.... Please forgive me if I come off a little self righteous but your response is the primary reason Americans are screwed.

Do you really need everyone in the crowd to share your political views to protest the 1%? Whether your a con or a lib, socialist or tea party if you didn't like the bailouts, bonuses, tightened lending practices, banks growing larger since the crash, whitehouse being beholden to the Fed, etc and so on.... you don't even have to agree on all points but unless you love Wall St. and cherish the system the way it is, I can't understand why you wouldn't support this movement.

Get off the left wing socialist garbage and take a stand against Wall St. Stop making excuses... You can't control who shows up at a rally.
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
4,761 posts, read 6,441,769 times
Reputation: 5272
Hopefully everyone will mind their manners and not tear up the downtown area of this world class city. But, I'm not keeping my fingers crossed.
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,551 posts, read 9,289,462 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Hold on.... Please forgive me if I come off a little self righteous but your response is the primary reason Americans are screwed.

Do you really need everyone in the crowd to share your political views to protest the 1%? Whether your a con or a lib, socialist or tea party if you didn't like the bailouts, bonuses, tightened lending practices, banks growing larger since the crash, whitehouse being beholden to the Fed, etc and so on.... you don't even have to agree on all points but unless you love Wall St. and cherish the system the way it is, I can't understand why you wouldn't support this movement.

Get off the left wing socialist garbage and take a stand against Wall St. Stop making excuses... You can't control who shows up at a rally.
If you don't see this as an extreme left wing mobilization I don't know what more to tell you. I've said this shortly after the first wall street protests, I posted it yesterday, and I'll say it again today: this entire occupy movement is a smoke and mirrors game based to energize the left. The average protestor most likely doesn't know what he or she is protesting, instead using it as an opportunity spew gag inducing rhetoric with words like "establishment", "capitalist", etc, yadda, so on and so forth.

You don't think it's funny to see this going on between an election year that saw heavy democratic losses and Obama's reelection year with extremely low approval numbers? Where was the occupy movement in 2008 when the banks were collapsing? Where were they in 2009 when the dust was settling? Where were then in 2010? Wait until just before an election year? Sorry, this isn't a "well it was time" protest but an orchestrated movement hell bent on energizing a silent democrat base.

What do they hope to do? Take down Wall Street? Take down BofA? Take down corporate America? It's ALL been operating business as usual, for better or worse. And it will continue to do so no matter the masses. Again, This movement is aiming their venom at the wrong target.

Instead of concentrating on the top 1%, maybe this movement should concentrate on making it themselves instead of taking it out on the so-called "super rich". So no, I'm not taking a stand against Wall Street and the top 1% because that's just silly. My problem lies way more with Pennsylvania Avenue. I didn't like the bailouts. I didn't like the stimulus. I wasn't a fan at all of raising the debt ceiling. I am NOT a fan of this U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time with numbers that rise so fast they're obsolete long after I hit "submit reply".

Again, they're barking up the wrong tree.

#occupywhitehouse
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