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Old 10-10-2011, 11:55 AM
 
Location: CLT native
4,280 posts, read 10,055,476 times
Reputation: 2270

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RansackedMuse View Post
That is true, however, democracy is what we want now. The founding fathers also condoned slavery. We do not. Or at least I do not and neither does #OWS.
Actually, with the 17th Amendment, you almost have it, but we will not give up the rest without a fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
I don't want a democracy. I like my Republic.
Democracies are nothing more than lynch mobs.
+1

If you want to get specific, gang rape is a democracy.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch,
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote"
-Benjamin Franklin
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,787 posts, read 8,436,546 times
Reputation: 4818
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowercountry View Post
All most of us have asked for is simply tell us the end game... what the protestors want specifically. Best way to solve a problem is offer concrete solutions as you complain.
Nobody here can do that. So you're just trying to put holes in a movement you don't understand.

Quote:
I assume you speak of the Tea Party movement. I think they developed some specifics but since that movement has been taken over by politicians looking to get elected. The same is already beginning to happen to the occupy movement.
Agreed and it's a risk you have to live with.

Quote:
I find it disingenuous that the protestors like to include 99% in their numbers. I think quite a few Americans prefer not to be labeled as the "haves" and "have nots." Leave me out of the 99% or the 1%.
Whether you want to or like it, you're in the 99%. So you can't choose to be left out of it. For the record, I don't know of anyone who draws the "haves" to the 1%... I'm in the 99% and feel like I have tons to be thankful for. Look at the ridiculous poverty numbers to understand what it really means to be in the "have nots".

Quote:
No one makes money for doing "nothing" in the free market, at least generally speaking. They are rewarded because of either contracts or because stockholders and boards believe they've done something of value for the company. How are the banks risk free (careful how you answer that one... it's a bit of a trap)?
Absolute fallacy that we have a "free market"... You're confused thinking I mean the Chairman or Executive of BigCompanyXYZ. I don't. People are constantly rewarded for doing nothing but moving pixels on a screen. Google things like Prop desks, HFT, quote stuffing, etc to understand how these financial firms prey on the markets. Unfair advantages unchecked. Then look into Open Market Operations by the Federal Reserve to understand how the government pours money straight into the stock market (aka printing money). Then look into Fed borrowing window to understand how these same people tap into free money at zero percent interest rates. In the financial arena, something for nothing is the name of the game. Don't lose sight that we're talking about Wall St here. As for a "bank"... I don't think there's really any left. They FDIC folds em up and takes em over every day. You can't think BoA, Chase, Citi, Wells, etc are simply banks. I mean come on.

Quote:
National debt and political issue.
It's a national movement!

Quote:
As I've said previously, money buys elections and all Americans are to blame. If you don't have a ton of money for a slick campaign you have no chance of getting elected nationally. That money comes from people with money. It's a vicious cycle but until Americans show that they'll elect a person who doesn't spend a million dollars on a campaign we are to blame.

Please clarify how you are funding the party? If you mean bail outs and the sort, vote out the ones who supported and gave it out; not those who took it.
I think you answered your own question here. #1 statement answers your #2 statement.

Quote:
Don't disagree. If one breaks the law, one should go to jail. I believe, however, that a lot of the current movement would have high pay outlawed.
High pay outlawed?! Oh my... that is a crazy leap. Sorry. Might as well talk about how the Tea Party are racists middle age whites who will completely outlaw Abortion.

Quote:
Do not be fooled by Buffet. He has a political agenda and he's buying power with donations too. He's the fox guarding the hen house (and telling half truths in the process.
I'm not fooled and he's not the fox at all. Your fox is the official "economic team" that has transcended multiple administrations.

Quote:
I agree, but again the voting American is to blame for the system. I mean who, for example, would vote for Roy Moore for president in 2012? No one because he's not had a highly expensive campaign to get noticed. (For sake of full disclosure, he's so unknown that I had to "Google" to find an example of someone running who isn't a part of the Big Party/Big Money system).
You don't even have to go that far... Well funded and smart people will get passed over (i.e. Paul, Huntsman).

Quote:
WE may just very well by the 99%... the 99% responsible for our own mess. Blaming the 1% for our continued failures to fix the problem at its core?

That's hypocrisy.
LOL - what?! Did you just conveniently forget everything in this discussion?!

Empty dogma here - sorry.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:13 PM
 
841 posts, read 1,240,262 times
Reputation: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
Nobody here can do that. So you're just trying to put holes in a movement you don't understand.

Agreed and it's a risk you have to live with.

Whether you want to or like it, you're in the 99%. So you can't choose to be left out of it. For the record, I don't know of anyone who draws the "haves" to the 1%... I'm in the 99% and feel like I have tons to be thankful for. Look at the ridiculous poverty numbers to understand what it really means to be in the "have nots".

Absolute fallacy that we have a "free market"... You're confused thinking I mean the Chairman or Executive of BigCompanyXYZ. I don't. People are constantly rewarded for doing nothing but moving pixels on a screen. Google things like Prop desks, HFT, quote stuffing, etc to understand how these financial firms prey on the markets. Unfair advantages unchecked. Then look into Open Market Operations by the Federal Reserve to understand how the government pours money straight into the stock market (aka printing money). Then look into Fed borrowing window to understand how these same people tap into free money at zero percent interest rates. In the financial arena, something for nothing is the name of the game. Don't lose sight that we're talking about Wall St here. As for a "bank"... I don't think there's really any left. They FDIC folds em up and takes em over every day. You can't think BoA, Chase, Citi, Wells, etc are simply banks. I mean come on.

It's a national movement!

I think you answered your own question here. #1 statement answers your #2 statement.

High pay outlawed?! Oh my... that is a crazy leap. Sorry. Might as well talk about how the Tea Party are racists middle age whites who will completely outlaw Abortion.

I'm not fooled and he's not the fox at all. Your fox is the official "economic team" that has transcended multiple administrations.

You don't even have to go that far... Well funded and smart people will get passed over (i.e. Paul, Huntsman).

LOL - what?! Did you just conveniently forget everything in this discussion?!

Empty dogma here - sorry.
Interesting discussion and no I didn't leave stuff out on purpose. My lunch time was ending and unfortunately I don't have much time to debate it farther.

Again though, leave me out of the 99%. I'll handle my own specific issues and goals as I see fit.

Enjoy... interesting points.
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Old 10-10-2011, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,783 posts, read 9,388,560 times
Reputation: 5264
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullman View Post

If you want to get specific, gang rape is a democracy.
WTF are you talking about? No one is talking about killing, raping or torturing... we were talking about the electoral college vs one man one vote.

Doesn't matter how many lambs or wolves are in the analogy... the wolves will always eat when it's dinner time.
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Robinson Church rd.
197 posts, read 427,165 times
Reputation: 137
Seeing that Iran is siding with the protestors. I rather let it stay with the other garbage in NY city. Don't bring it here here please.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Ayrsley
4,714 posts, read 8,480,078 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
Nobody here can do that. So you're just trying to put holes in a movement you don't understand.
If the "movement" cannot define its own goals, then it seems obvious that it does not even understand itself and has a lot of holes to begin with.

So a group of people don't like the status quo. Fair enough. What do these people propose we do to affect change? If all these people are saying is "this sucks and it needs to change," without offering up a solution or a tangible resolution, it is nothing but hollow rhetoric. Its like a political candidate saying, "we need more jobs in this country." Ok - sounds good...but if they cannot follow up that statement with a proposal for how that can be done well...they're just blowing hot air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
Whether you want to or like it, you're in the 99%. So you can't choose to be left out of it.
Demographically that may be true. But by no means does it mean that those speaking out for "the 99%" speak for me or that I am a part of their "movement." That's like saying Jesse jackson speaks for every African-American. Until they have something tangible to say to allow me to evaluate what their position is and whether or not I choose to align myself with them, I am not one of the "99%." Heck, at this moment...I am the 0%.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:18 PM
 
4,677 posts, read 8,053,140 times
Reputation: 1236
I think some people are over exaggerating the 99%. I feel the same disdain when the TEA party states "...the American people..."as if I agree with anything they're saying. But demigraphically unless you're billionaire, all of us are in the 99%.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:26 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,186,293 times
Reputation: 22375
Quote:
Originally Posted by adavi215 View Post
I think some people are over exaggerating the 99%. I feel the same disdain when the TEA party states "...the American people..."as if I agree with anything they're saying. But demigraphically unless you're billionaire, all of us are in the 99%.
it is just confusing, cause the Prez defines the wealthy as anyone making $250K and up and evidently a lot of others (like me) consider the very welathy to mean - mega millionaires.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:12 PM
 
Location: NC
5,121 posts, read 1,824,880 times
Reputation: 2374
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueheronNC View Post
Didn't BofA buy Countrywide AFTER they had already issued all that subprime crap? It was a stupid investment strategy on their part, but . . .\
BoA had to buy Countrywide & ML or the gov't wasn't going to give them any TARP.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,783 posts, read 9,388,560 times
Reputation: 5264
Quote:
Originally Posted by adavi215 View Post
I think some people are over exaggerating the 99%. I feel the same disdain when the TEA party states "...the American people..."as if I agree with anything they're saying. But demigraphically unless you're billionaire, all of us are in the 99%.
Is the disdain more than what you feel for the current system in place? I'm not a Tea Party fan due to the movement getting hijacked and some of the elected officials come off a little wacko at times but you have to wonder if they sound nuts because we have listened to politicians lie about everything to get elected.

Wall St. bought up the regulations through lobbying in the early 2000's and pushed us over the edge. We haven't closed any loopholes or changed enough laws to stop it from happening again and if politicians tried to change these laws Wall St. would pay the next guy off.

Unless we get a bunch of guys from outside the beltway it will be more of the same... This is almost impossible to do because major corporations also control the media and news. They have it locked up and unless we get Tea Party"ish" and vote in new blood things won't change.
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