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Nevertheless, the discussion is on this OWS movement . . . and particularly, the movement as it exists here in Charlotte, home of Banking, USA. And the points that were being made were in re: to CLT's OWS movement not having much ooomph these days.
Last edited by SunnyKayak; 11-21-2011 at 10:31 AM..
Reason: orphan- the referring post deleted
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,555 posts, read 10,404,562 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty
No brian that is not what I said...what I said was no-one was moaning that their was no clear directive. baby bush was pissed and wanted to make a point, he sure didn't think it through. But the repubs weren't whining about that.
No, there was a clear directive. Bush at least claimed it was for WMD's, the opposition claimed it was to control Iraq's oil fields. And those protestors made it VERY clear what they were protesting against. It's safe to assume that ONE side had it totally right regardless of what we were being told.
As far as republican opposition goes, he lost Colin Powell over that war. Nobody running for President on the GOP side in 2008 wanted Bush's endorsement. George Bush lost a ton of political capital on the Hill and his own voter base over that war.
And funny, here was Bush mired in an extremely unpopular war, running against John "Reporting for duty" Kerry....who claimed to have a plan for everything. I have a plan for this and I have a plan for that and I have a plan for everything else. He NEVER outlined what that plan was. Nobody knew what exactly his ideas where.
No, there was a clear directive. Bush at least claimed it was for WMD's, the opposition claimed it was to control Iraq's oil fields. And those protestors made it VERY clear what they were protesting against. It's safe to assume that ONE side had it totally right regardless of what we were being told.
As far as republican opposition goes, he lost Colin Powell over that war. Nobody running for President on the GOP side in 2008 wanted Bush's endorsement. George Bush lost a ton of political capital on the Hill and his own voter base over that war.
And funny, here was Bush mired in an extremely unpopular war, running against John "Reporting for duty" Kerry....who claimed to have a plan for everything. I have a plan for this and I have a plan for that and I have a plan for everything else. He NEVER outlined what that plan was. Nobody knew what exactly his ideas where.
Remember what happened to him?
Sound familiar here?
brian, with that you are comparing apples and oranges.(their is no directive when it is all based on lies and propaganda) These people aren't looking to run for POTUS, they are actually against what it is that puts the people there. OWS at this point has done exactly what they set out to do, get people talking. These people have guts and testicular fortitude. They deserve props for that. And for now, we will sit back and see where they go and what happens.
And an example of what puts them there (the politicians) is this:
And THIS is just a couple of the many things that disgust them and should every single citizen in this country, and every single one of us should be telling them we are tired of the BS at our expense.
No, there was a clear directive. Bush at least claimed it was for WMD's, the opposition claimed it was to control Iraq's oil fields. And those protestors made it VERY clear what they were protesting against. It's safe to assume that ONE side had it totally right regardless of what we were being told.
As far as republican opposition goes, he lost Colin Powell over that war. Nobody running for President on the GOP side in 2008 wanted Bush's endorsement. George Bush lost a ton of political capital on the Hill and his own voter base over that war.
And funny, here was Bush mired in an extremely unpopular war, running against John "Reporting for duty" Kerry....who claimed to have a plan for everything. I have a plan for this and I have a plan for that and I have a plan for everything else. He NEVER outlined what that plan was. Nobody knew what exactly his ideas where.
Remember what happened to him?
Sound familiar here?
Nice summation, Brian.
And yes, there is a parallel. Ideologists are good for getting movements started; but someone has to inspire action to take the movement forward.
It's fine to talk the talk . . . but it doesn't mean squat til you walk the walk.
Inspiring action that is simply destructive (rioting, looting) is anarchy. Action for action's sake.
Inspiring action that changes laws/politicies is a successful protest movement.
brian, with that you are comparing apples and oranges.(their is no directive when it is all based on lies and propaganda) These people aren't looking to run for POTUS, they are actually against what it is that puts the people there. OWS at this point has done exactly what they set out to do, get people talking. These people have guts and testicular fortitude. They deserve props for that. And for now, we will sit back and see where they go and what happens.
And an example of what puts them there (the politicians) is this:
And THIS is just a couple of the many things that disgust them and should every single citizen in this country, and every single one of us should be telling them we are tired of the BS at our expense.
Kitty - that is all fine and good - and I think if we took a poll, the majority of folks would agree with you that these issues need to be addressed.
But they need to be addressed in a court of law or on the legislative floor . . . marching around beating on drums and clanging cowbells, as charming as it has all looked, is not getting anything CHANGED . . . mainly cause no one has had to address what it is that folks in this movement want CHANGED.
Hoping things get changed is not gonna get anyone anywhere.
And yes, there is a parallel. Ideologists are good for getting movements started; but someone has to inspire action to take the movement forward.
It's fine to talk the talk . . . but it doesn't mean squat til you walk the walk.
Inspiring action that is simply destructive (rioting, looting) is anarchy. Action for action's sake.
Inspiring action that changes laws/politicies is a successful protest movement.
Ani, you yourself has said that media is picking out the fringe to put on the air but now you say they are prompting anarchy, which is it?
You have also commented that the politicians are as corrupt and dirty as the day is long, so what makes you think that with all the direction in the world they would sit and listen to what OWS has to say? What anyone has to say other than those who line their pockets?
They are being forced to hear that MANY people from all walks of life in this country are NOT happy, and down right disgusted with this path we are on and..... that may be all that there ever is to this movement. But not only are TPTB and those sitting in their ivory towers having to see/listen to it but the whole world is watching. In many places in the world they are doing the same exact thing and that is being heard. There is something to be said for that, whether they are doing it they way any of us think it could/should be done.
Maybe the layoffs at BoA will make folks in this movement feel good about what they have accomplished.
They were quick to take the credit for the ATM fees being reversed.
Just sayin' . . .
But didn't the outcry of the people in this country cause bofa to change their mind? That is what they publicly stated is why they withdrew from charging the fees.
Location: Some got six month some got one solid. But me and my buddies all got lifetime here
4,555 posts, read 10,404,562 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty
brian, with that you are comparing apples and oranges.(their is no directive when it is all based on lies and propaganda) These people aren't looking to run for POTUS, they are actually against what it is that puts the people there. OWS at this point has done exactly what they set out to do, get people talking. These people have guts and testicular fortitude. They deserve props for that. And for now, we will sit back and see where they go and what happens.
And an example of what puts them there (the politicians) is this:
And THIS is just a couple of the many things that disgust them and should every single citizen in this country, and every single one of us should be telling them we are tired of the BS at our expense.
No no no...I said there WAS a directive REGARDLESS of what we were being told. Whether it was all propaganda or all true, at least Bush and a select few knew what the directive was.
Occupy thrives on having no leader. There is no figure head. A ton of their moves on Thursday where literally based on "so what should we do next" to each other. By nature without a clear cut leader there can be no clear directive.
The Occupy Wall Street movement is not wearing well with voters across the country. Only 33% now say that they are supportive of its goals, compared to 45% who say they oppose them. That represents an 11 point shift in the wrong direction for the movement's support compared to a month ago when 35% of voters said they supported it and 36% were opposed. Most notably independents have gone from supporting Occupy Wall Street's goals 39/34, to opposing them 34/42.
Voters don't care for the Tea Party either, with 42% saying they support its goals to 45% opposed. But asked whether they have a higher opinion of the Tea Party or Occupy Wall Street movement the Tea Party wins out 43-37, representing a flip from last month when Occupy Wall Street won out 40-37 on that question. Again the movement with independents is notable- from preferring Occupy Wall Street 43-34, to siding with the Tea Party 44-40
Well, you're right...people sure are talking.
A bump out of a park isn't going to change public perception. If anything it might make things worse for the occupy movement as voters start to grow even more weary of their shenanigans.
And I seriously doubt that many of Thursdays protestors (and those in Charlotte to keep it local) were there because of a core belief.
I see some of these kids getting arrested yesterday and I swear it's like they're too busy trying to recreate the feel of a long lost era as opposed to seeking real change.
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