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What about the all the businesses that located along 85 and 77 within the beltline? They probably chose the location for convenient access to the interstate.
A LOT of trucks begin and end their trip inside the beltway! Would you want them to go back to 485 on surface streets (where a whole NEW set of dangers arise)?
Sounds like a terrible idea to me.
A distinction can be made between thru-truck traffic and traffic O/Ding in Charlotte. I wonder what the proportion is of each. In other words, any of the businesses along I-85 and I-77 that need to be served by tractor-trailers can still be. Given what a major shipping route I-85 is in particular, I imagine that our thru truck traffic is still significant.
Can this be enforced? Absolutely. Either use a transponder system or camera system with tag recognition. The cost is negligible to install (you'd only need it at one entry/exit point per interstate, and the concept already exists at weigh stations). It's much less onerous than the highway system in Europe where there's literally a license-recognition camera every couple of miles.
Personally, I think they should ban out of County commuters from the interstate at rush hour. That would alleviate the problem too.
The difference between your solution and mine? Yours would kill Charlotte as a city and mine wouldn't. I know you're just trying to be pejorative, but just imagine what that would do to housing prices if everyone had to live within the county. Suddenly Charlotte becomes as expensive as the San Francisco Bay Area and kills a lot of its comparative advantage for residents and businesses alike. Smooth move there. You can only do what you're suggesting if you provide a good substitute method for people to commute in, like an extensive rail system.
A distinction can be made between thru-truck traffic and traffic O/Ding in Charlotte. I wonder what the proportion is of each. In other words, any of the businesses along I-85 and I-77 that need to be served by tractor-trailers can still be. Given what a major shipping route I-85 is in particular, I imagine that our thru truck traffic is still significant.
Can this be enforced? Absolutely. Either use a transponder system or camera system with tag recognition. The cost is negligible to install (you'd only need it at one entry/exit point per interstate, and the concept already exists at weigh stations. It's much less onerous than the highway system in Europe where there's literally a license-recognition camera every couple of miles.
If I'm not mistaken, there are already license recognition cameras all over the interstates in Charlotte.
The NCDOT crunches all sorts of data regarding through-traffic, entry/exit, etc...
The difference between your solution and mine? Yours would kill Charlotte as a city and mine wouldn't. I know you're just trying to be pejorative, but just imagine what that would do to housing prices if everyone had to live within the county. Suddenly Charlotte becomes as expensive as the San Francisco Bay Area and kills a lot of its comparative advantage for residents and businesses alike. Smooth move there. You can only do what you're suggesting if you provide a good substitute method for people to commute in, like an extensive rail system.
If you don't like commuter traffic, move somewhere with less of a commute! Why should everyone else bear the cost so you can avoid *minor* inconvenience? Now the rail idea, I do like. That would be a benefit to the entire region...
Last edited by Native_Son; 11-11-2011 at 09:56 AM..
Charlotte is the exception here, not the rule. Most major cities bypass their tractor-trailers around the city. So why are we specifically so willing to allow this when other cities have made the rational calculation that it makes sense to do otherwise? .
Charlotte DOES allow for bypass....485 IS a bypass outside of Charlotte. Here's an example, if you're coming down 77 and you wanted to get to Monroe, w/o 485 you'd have to take 74 THROUGH charlotte. You have the option to avoid "cutting through charlotte" and take 485.
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Originally Posted by blueheronNC
I think moreso than any other major city I've seen in the country, Charlotte has a tremendous amount of tractor-trailer/semi traffic driving through the heart of an urbanized area as they do on I-85 and I-77. Most cities route thru truck traffic around the city on their outer loop. Doing this would massively improve rush-hour commute times and help avoid accidents. It's extremely surreal to see interstates clogged with single-occupancy commuters with numerous tractor-trailers all gunning for the same limited stretch of pavement. Wouldn't the simple solution be to route I-77 traffic around the western flank of I-485, and I-85 traffic around the southern (or eventually northern) semicircle of I-485? Especially for the northern part of I-485, that semicircle barely sees any traffic at any time of day, so you could route all tractor-trailer traffic on I-485 and still have it going at or above the speed limit, but it would greatly clear up the mess and daily accidents on our "inner" interstates. This is how Atlanta does it, for example (trucks from all 3 major Interstate highways must use the I-285 bypass).
Another idea would be to limit the times at which tractor-trailers are allowed within the I-485 circle to ban them during rush hour times. You could have monitoring cameras like they do at weigh stations and fine trucks that violate these time restrictions. Trucks would then have the choice of coming through during more opportune times of day, or having to drive the extra mileage to go around instead of through the city. Their choice.
My guess is that you chose to move to the area north of Charlotte & didn't check out the I77 traffic situation.
Do you understand that most truckers now travel with GPS & many follow the instuctions blindly? 2 local examples, this year, have been trucks that followed GPS instruction, got caught on the train tracks in downtown Kings Mountain, & got slammed by the Amtrak Crescent. The crossing is plastered with signs, which both drivers insisted that they didn't see. The city has notified the manufacturers of GPSs to not route vehicles to the intersections because trucks can't clear it, but the truckers had older units.
Where would you propose that trucks using I 85 go? Local roads? I've been on I 85 during rush hour & cars far outnumber semis. You can get on 485 just before going into Gaston County & heading south to Spartanburg. You think that 485 would be better? That would mean trucks unnecessarily getting off on 74 & going smack through downtown Gastonia. Maybe you think that that's a good idea. I don't.
My guess is that you chose to move to the area north of Charlotte & didn't check out the I77 traffic situation.
Do you understand that most truckers now travel with GPS & many follow the instuctions blindly? 2 local examples, this year, have been trucks that followed GPS instruction, got caught on the train tracks in downtown Kings Mountain, & got slammed by the Amtrak Crescent. The crossing is plastered with signs, which both drivers insisted that they didn't see. The city has notified the manufacturers of GPSs to not route vehicles to the intersections because trucks can't clear it, but the truckers had older units.
Where would you propose that trucks using I 85 go? Local roads? I've been on I 85 during rush hour & cars far outnumber semis. You can get on 485 just before going into Gaston County & heading south to Spartanburg. You think that 485 would be better? That would mean trucks unnecessarily getting off on 74 & going smack through downtown Gastonia. Maybe you think that that's a good idea. I don't.
He/she's just talking about inside 485 in Charlotte. Taking 485 from north of Charlotte and picking 77 back up to SC takes basically the same amount of time as staying on 77 the whole time, and once 485 is finished, taking that from northeast of Charlotte and picking 85 back up going towards Kings Mountain will probably take the same amount of time as staying on 85 the whole time as well. So it's not just "trying to make it easier for commuters," it'd probably be easier for the trucks as well since they won't have to deal with as much other cars merging, and if there is traffic on 77 or 85 then 485 may very well be the faster route.
The one point you do kinda bring up is that IMO, and I don't do a daily commute and haven't been here terribly long but I do have to drive all around the area a lot, is that particularly on 77, the traffic seems to be the worst when you're north of 485 (particularly between exits 25 and 28), as I've never had a ton of trouble getting past the uptown area on 77 even around rush hour. I don't use 85 north as much but mainly due to the construction around Poplar Tent Rd. it's a similar story...I find it odd that the worst traffic I've been in around here has been 10+ miles away from the city. So forcing trucks to use 485 isn't going to fix those issues.
Trucks dropping and picking up locally would obviously be exempt from such a law. A simple check on the bills of lading would verify this (this may even be available electronically now?).
But I think the OP is incorrect in saying that Charlotte is the exception. I believe Atlanta is the exception - one of the few cities that does not allow through truck traffic - could be wrong about that. Atlanta has some of the worst traffic and pollution in the country.
I wonder if Atlanta has to forgo some Federal funding for that portion of the interstate?
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Originally Posted by GoPhils
He/she's just talking about inside 485 in Charlotte. Taking 485 from north of Charlotte and picking 77 back up to SC takes basically the same amount of time as staying on 77 the whole time, and once 485 is finished, taking that from northeast of Charlotte and picking 85 back up going towards Kings Mountain will probably take the same amount of time as staying on 85 the whole time as well. So it's not just "trying to make it easier for commuters," it'd probably be easier for the trucks as well since they won't have to deal with as much other cars merging, and if there is traffic on 77 or 85 then 485 may very well be the faster route.
The one point you do kinda bring up is that IMO, and I don't do a daily commute and haven't been here terribly long but I do have to drive all around the area a lot, is that particularly on 77, the traffic seems to be the worst when you're north of 485 (particularly between exits 25 and 28), as I've never had a ton of trouble getting past the uptown area on 77 even around rush hour. I don't use 85 north as much but mainly due to the construction around Poplar Tent Rd. it's a similar story...I find it odd that the worst traffic I've been in around here has been 10+ miles away from the city. So forcing trucks to use 485 isn't going to fix those issues.
Well, the OP included I 85. I have no reason to take I 77 during rush hour but have taken I 85 south from the university area to Kings Mountain during rush hour. I saw primarily cars.
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