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Old 12-11-2011, 09:31 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,052,657 times
Reputation: 22371

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
Not really, but the problem is extremely complex, rooted in many cultural and racial inequities compounded through generational oppression. I'm not playing the race card, it is what is. The school adminstrators and teachers realize this, they work hard with what resources they have , as I did in one of the more urban schools in NC. But when a whole slate of people are economically challenged, it ain't an easy fix. Some parent(s) are working 2 jobs, many single family homes, drug and alcohol dependence. I had frank discussion with students and realized finding something to eat everyday ranks above homework. It's not exclusively an urban issue because rural poor communities exhibit similar problems.

I'm beating a dead horse, we all know the problem and until there is equality in the economic playing field, these issue will persist. With all that, I applaud the job many administrators and teachers are doing, unsung heros...really.
I am gonna be totally politically incorrect and say your general premise is horse manure.

Sorry. I am really worn out with the "oppression" statements. People are where they are b/c they have chosen that route. Generational poverty has been made the norm in many situations b/c entitlements have made it possible for people to hand their fate over to a patriarchal system. It is an acceptable lifestyle for some people and you know it.

You can't be a survivor if you have a victim mentality, and perpetuating "the politics of grievance" has done nothing more than give young folks a reason to be angry rather than a reason to break out of the pattern.

People fail in school b/c they and their parents don't give a sh$t.

They have been programmed to believe they are "owed" something from the rest of us. That attitude doesn't promote EARNING anything, even a high school diploma.
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:50 AM
 
2,833 posts, read 4,141,891 times
Reputation: 6873
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I am gonna be totally politically incorrect and say your general premise is horse manure.

Sorry. I am really worn out with the "oppression" statements. People are where they are b/c they have chosen that route. Generational poverty has been made the norm in many situations b/c entitlements have made it possible for people to hand their fate over to a patriarchal system. It is an acceptable lifestyle for some people and you know it.

You can't be a survivor if you have a victim mentality, and perpetuating "the politics of grievance" has done nothing more than give young folks a reason to be angry rather than a reason to break out of the pattern.

People fail in school b/c they and their parents don't give a sh$t.

They have been programmed to believe they are "owed" something from the rest of us. That attitude doesn't promote EARNING anything, even a high school diploma.
Very well said and so very true.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Lake Norman area
763 posts, read 645,049 times
Reputation: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I am gonna be totally politically incorrect and say your general premise is horse manure.

Sorry. I am really worn out with the "oppression" statements. People are where they are b/c they have chosen that route. Generational poverty has been made the norm in many situations b/c entitlements have made it possible for people to hand their fate over to a patriarchal system. It is an acceptable lifestyle for some people and you know it.

You can't be a survivor if you have a victim mentality, and perpetuating "the politics of grievance" has done nothing more than give young folks a reason to be angry rather than a reason to break out of the pattern.

People fail in school b/c they and their parents don't give a sh$t.

They have been programmed to believe they are "owed" something from the rest of us. That attitude doesn't promote EARNING anything, even a high school diploma.
Only a moron or someone that has lived in the wilds would disagree with you.
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:19 AM
 
1,226 posts, read 2,051,610 times
Reputation: 1864
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I am gonna be totally politically incorrect and say your general premise is horse manure.

Sorry. I am really worn out with the "oppression" statements. People are where they are b/c they have chosen that route. Generational poverty has been made the norm in many situations b/c entitlements have made it possible for people to hand their fate over to a patriarchal system. It is an acceptable lifestyle for some people and you know it.

You can't be a survivor if you have a victim mentality, and perpetuating "the politics of grievance" has done nothing more than give young folks a reason to be angry rather than a reason to break out of the pattern.

People fail in school b/c they and their parents don't give a sh$t.

They have been programmed to believe they are "owed" something from the rest of us. That attitude doesn't promote EARNING anything, even a high school diploma.
totally agree. Responsibility for the outcome of your offspring should be instinct. I do think that the problem doesn't just lie with the schools, the problem lies mainly with the parents.

goverment can only do so much by providing resources, but if people choose not to use them (or use only that which doesn't require effort), they have no one to blame but themselves. It won't improve untill there's economic equality..... HOG WASH..... it will only get worse, as people continue to determine that their survival isn't dependant on themselves.
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Old 12-11-2011, 04:20 PM
 
1,139 posts, read 2,053,312 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Great post. I used to teach art classes in south Philly and also taught computer classes in rural Kentucky. I had some really talented kids who challanged me to be a better instructor. One of my students went to a private school and it was obvious his education level was above the other students.

There were 3 boys who were real tight. 2 of them had both parents in the household and one was from a single parent. The kid with one parent had a much harder time in school. He was a good kid but it was obvious he had more issues and challanges than the other 2. I was also surprised to find out the kids in public school weren't allowed to take their books home.

If most of these kids were allowed to be kids instead of having to take on adult responsibilities I think they would be more successful in school.
In reference to your last sentence, I had the same discussion with a student who had a lot to deal with at home. If only they did not.....
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:42 AM
 
3,455 posts, read 3,137,961 times
Reputation: 3411
[quote=anifani821;22072595]I am gonna be totally politically incorrect and say your general premise is horse manure.

Sorry. I am really worn out with the "oppression" statements. People are where they are b/c they have chosen that route. Generational poverty has been made the norm in many situations b/c entitlements have made it possible for people to hand their fate over to a patriarchal system. It is an acceptable lifestyle for some people and you know it.

You can't be a survivor if you have a victim mentality, and perpetuating "the politics of grievance" has done nothing more than give young folks a reason to be angry rather than a reason to break out of the pattern.

People fail in school b/c they and their parents don't give a sh$t.

They have been programmed to believe they are "owed" something from the rest of us. That attitude doesn't promote EARNING anything, even a high school diploma.[/quote]

Well sweetie what to do you think caused the problem? A generation of wealth? Nobody I TAUGHT and/or TUTORED in the HOOD felt like they were owed a DAMN other than an equal chance to succeed. And if you think things are fair and balanced, take the blinders off because they aren't.

It's a depressing situation but to falsely state that large majority of these kids ( and parents) arent' hustling and busting their behinds to succeed is just JUNK and not REALITY. Sure you've got some slackers, some system abusers but not the large majority.

People fail in school for a ton of different reasons at every level of society due to drugs, broken-families, generational oppression, etc...not just because the student and parents don't give a sh$t. No, if you have money and flexible job hours, you have more time to deal with your child, afford tutoring and provide many other self-esteem building opportunities.

I KNOW some people abuse the system, kids and parents need to be more involved, but to sit on your HIGH house (view from the ivory tower) and condemn an entire community and assert "facts" about situations you've never dealt with or attempted to understand is BULLSH$T!
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,353,324 times
Reputation: 5231
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I am gonna be totally politically incorrect and say your general premise is horse manure.

Sorry. I am really worn out with the "oppression" statements. People are where they are b/c they have chosen that route. Generational poverty has been made the norm in many situations b/c entitlements have made it possible for people to hand their fate over to a patriarchal system. It is an acceptable lifestyle for some people and you know it.

You can't be a survivor if you have a victim mentality, and perpetuating "the politics of grievance" has done nothing more than give young folks a reason to be angry rather than a reason to break out of the pattern.

People fail in school b/c they and their parents don't give a sh$t.

They have been programmed to believe they are "owed" something from the rest of us. That attitude doesn't promote EARNING anything, even a high school diploma.
That's bull.... We don't get to choose the family we are born into. I was lucky to have a large family that gave us support and food when times were tough. I know other kids who weren't so lucky. Some made it out and others didn't.

You have no idea what some of these kids are going home to and to just lump them all together as choosing to be poor is laughable and sad at the same time.

If you worked in the inner city or volunteered in the inner city I think you would be amazed at how many good kids there are who are busting their tail to get out of the hood.

If you really think every kids who is failing doesn't care then I feel sorry for you. Our education system isn't what it used to be... all of our kids, black, white, yellow etc are falling behind other countries.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:07 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,052,657 times
Reputation: 22371
[quote=Big Aristotle;22087447]
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I am gonna be totally politically incorrect and say your general premise is horse manure.

Sorry. I am really worn out with the "oppression" statements. People are where they are b/c they have chosen that route. Generational poverty has been made the norm in many situations b/c entitlements have made it possible for people to hand their fate over to a patriarchal system. It is an acceptable lifestyle for some people and you know it.

You can't be a survivor if you have a victim mentality, and perpetuating "the politics of grievance" has done nothing more than give young folks a reason to be angry rather than a reason to break out of the pattern.

People fail in school b/c they and their parents don't give a sh$t.

They have been programmed to believe they are "owed" something from the rest of us. That attitude doesn't promote EARNING anything, even a high school diploma.[/quote]

Well sweetie what to do you think caused the problem? A generation of wealth? Nobody I TAUGHT and/or TUTORED in the HOOD felt like they were owed a DAMN other than an equal chance to succeed. And if you think things are fair and balanced, take the blinders off because they aren't.

It's a depressing situation but to falsely state that large majority of these kids ( and parents) arent' hustling and busting their behinds to succeed is just JUNK and not REALITY. Sure you've got some slackers, some system abusers but not the large majority.

People fail in school for a ton of different reasons at every level of society due to drugs, broken-families, generational oppression, etc...not just because the student and parents don't give a sh$t. No, if you have money and flexible job hours, you have more time to deal with your child, afford tutoring and provide many other self-esteem building opportunities.

I KNOW some people abuse the system, kids and parents need to be more involved, but to sit on your HIGH house (view from the ivory tower) and condemn an entire community and assert "facts" about situations you've never dealt with or attempted to understand is BULLSH$T!
The same can be said of po' white folks in trailers and po' white folks in rural areas where mom and dad didn't get a high school degree.

I wasn't just referring to po' black kids in the hood.

But the difference is . . . the po' white kids aren't taught that someone else owes them something. They feel just as oppressed as the po' black kids, but they haven't been given a victimology card to go along with the lack of opportunity.

They haven't been taught to value an education, cause their parents don't value it. So they drop out of school. You know, it isn't just black kids who don't succeed. You did know that, didn't you? You do realize that white folks have generational poverty, too? And drug addictions? And babies at 16? And abusive parents?

And just for the record: I will sit wherever the hell I have earned the right to sit. I climbed that ladder to get up here one rung at a time, starting with working 3 jobs to put myself through school. I didn't get any gubment subsidies or student loans along the way, either. My first job out of college was barely above minimum wage. It wasn't glamorous.

So cool it with the "no one done seen the misery I done seen" crap. Just b/c I am white it doesn't mean I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth.

Last edited by brokensky; 12-12-2011 at 03:32 PM..
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:21 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,052,657 times
Reputation: 22371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
That's bull.... We don't get to choose the family we are born into. I was lucky to have a large family that gave us support and food when times were tough. I know other kids who weren't so lucky. Some made it out and others didn't.

You have no idea what some of these kids are going home to and to just lump them all together as choosing to be poor is laughable and sad at the same time.

If you worked in the inner city or volunteered in the inner city I think you would be amazed at how many good kids there are who are busting their tail to get out of the hood.

If you really think every kids who is failing doesn't care then I feel sorry for you. Our education system isn't what it used to be... all of our kids, black, white, yellow etc are falling behind other countries.
I agree that all kids can be in a struggling situation. I didn't say only black kids were in at-risk homes.

The ones who are working hard are the ones who are making the high scores on tests. The ones who don't give a rat's ass drag the scores down and make up the drop out rates.

Tell the story however you wanna tell it. The facts speak for themselves. A big chunk of kids are failing. These are not only black kids. If you wanna believe that 50 or so % that drop out are doing so even tho their parents are dedicated to education and supporting their kids' goals, and despite the fact that they love learning and see how it matters for their futures, then I guess that is just what you choose to believe.

Parents who don't give a sh$t come in all colors.

Last edited by brokensky; 12-12-2011 at 03:35 PM..
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,353,324 times
Reputation: 5231
Quote:

The same can be said of po' white folks in trailers and po' white folks in rural areas where mom and dad didn't get a high school degree.

I wasn't just referring to po' black kids in the hood.

But the difference is . . . the po' white kids aren't taught that someone else owes them something. They feel just as oppressed as the po' black kids, but they haven't been given a victimology card to go along with the lack of opportunity.

They haven't been taught to value an education, cause their parents don't value it. So they drop out of school. You know, it isn't just black kids who don't succeed. You did know that, didn't you? You do realize that white folks have generational poverty, too? And drug addictions? And babies at 16? And abusive parents?

And just for the record: I will sit wherever the hell I have earned the right to sit. I climbed that ladder to get up here one rung at a time, starting with working 3 jobs to put myself through school. I didn't get any gubment subsidies or student loans along the way, either. My first job out of college was barely above minimum wage. It wasn't glamorous.

So cool it with the "no one done seen the misery I done seen" crap. Just b/c I am white it doesn't mean I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth.
Your story is yours... I have mine and everyone else has theirs as well. If someone has taught in the inner city or rural kentucky they can give first hand knowledge on what they witnessed. I sat in a town hall meeting in Eastern Kentucky and heard the Governor tell a room full of white people they got on welfare and got comfortable and no one stood up and said it was a lie.

It's not crap, it's life and no 2 are the same.

How many poor white kids have you taught? How many poor white kids did you live around or grow up with?

White kids are poor but don't have a victim mentality? Gimme a break.... ALL races have people who play the victim card.
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