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I see the light now. Gosh, you know auto traffic is not really a factor either since other towns have traffic too. By the way the high end development you posted pics of, you know to show how urban and such Atlanta is, is being sold off for lack of performance. It also sat as a huge hole in ground for years. Any other Atlanta booster-ism's you'd like to share?
What high-end development are you talking about and what does this have to do with anything you've posted in this thread? Just throwing any and everything at the wall to see what sticks huh?
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Charlotte folks you may not be aware, but the Atlanta people believe that Georgia handed North Carolina the banking industry. While that may be a fact, there has to be much more to the story than that. McColl had a hand in this, and I am sure others did.
I'll wager $100 had Georgia kept the banking system it would not have created a charlotte. Atlanta has little vision and certainly can't execute on a grand vision. They've resorted to movies after all as a premier industry.
I am simply pointing out other world class metros can at least manage the problems that Atlanta can never seem to address, let alone solve. Buckhead is the home of south's most expensive residences, and the lack of proper law and order in 2018 for residents and tourists is appalling but not surprising. The city of Atlanta is dysfunctional and growth will no longer cure what ails.
I like Atlanta a lot - it has so many fun attractions. But I personally prefer Charlotte - I love how bucolic and charming it is - it's so redolent of Southern grace and elegance.
It is true that the Charlotte city limits is more square miles than the Atlanta city limits, but the Charlotte city population is approximately twice that of Atlanta. But Mecklenburg and Fulton counties are nearly identical in square miles, but Meckllenburg’s population is greater than Fulton’s. So which is the most dense? Mecklenburg is the most dense. Atlanta is not dense at all for a metro of over 5 million. It is a sprawling metro but so is Charlotte.
When considering metros over 2 million, Mecklenburg, Wake, and Fulton are all three of the least dense central counties in the US. But there is hope for all three since the central county populations are all growing rapidly.
And do I need to remind some that Fulton was only approximately 650,00 in the late 1980s, when the ATL metro population was like the CLT metro population today.
We already know that some of the more dillusional people in the Triangle think it is utopia. Of course, most of us assume that you are 22 years old, just graduated from college, read the News & Observer daily, and have not been outside Wake County but to visit your grandmother in Moore County, the pottery capital of NC.
I did not complete my message directly above. This is in response to that message. Someone earlier from Raleigh stated that the three largest cities in the Triangle- Raleigh, Durham, and Cary are 1 million people. He/she alluded that since Charlotte annexed aggressively then it has no other larger cities in the area because Charlotte had gobbled up all of the population. But Raleigh has not annexed aggressively? LOL! But let's look at the totals. All totals are 2019 census.
Raleigh Area :
Raleigh 474,069
Durham 278,993
Cary 170,882
Chapel Hill 64,051
Apex 59,300
Wake Forest 45,629
Holly Springs 37,812
Total 1,130,736
Charlotte Area:
Charlotte 885,708
Concord 96,341
Gastonia 77,273
Rock Hill 75,048
Huntersville 58,098
Kannapolis 50,841
Indian Trail 40,252
Total 1,283,561
For the longest time I have witnessed people from the Triangle come on to the Charlotte and Triad forums posting unrealistic and outlandish comments. The post that I mention here is just another example.
I want to bring some sanity to this discussion. I believe that some are making flawed comments. I used to travel to ATL frequently in the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s. I used to love to visit Atlanta. I traveled to ATL so frequently that I knew the city and suburbs very well. Today Charlotte is the size of ATL in 1988-1990. Charlotte today feels like ATL then. CLT's skyline today is very close to the size of ATL's skyline then. Traffic today in CLT is similar to ATL in that former time period. Restaurants and night life in ATL in that period is similar to CLT today. Today CLT may not closely resemble the ATL of today, but the CLT of today reminds me a great deal of 1988 ATL.
One difference is that ATL was sprawling in that day, and CLT is trying to reel in its sprawl. Mecklenburg's population of roughly 1.1 million is much more that Fulton's roughly 650,000 in that era. And Mecklenburg is growing by approximately 200,000 residents per decade while Fulton was not growing then. The high growth was in DeKalb, Gwinnett, and Cobb Counties. While CLT certainly has too much sprawl today, it clearly is not as sprawling as ATL in that era of the late 1980s.
Redirecting the growth to the light rail lines is certainly playing a huge impact in maintaining Mecklenburg's high growth rate. It is playing a major role in attracting millinneals and boosting CLT's efforts to become a major IT center. More lines are planned, and it will be interesting to see if Mecklenburg can maintain its high growth rate. While Fulton and Mecklenburg are almost identical in square miles, Wake (Raleigh) is approximately one-third larger in square miles. Also, the redirection of growth and major in-fill within Mecklenburg County is also allowing the city population to continue to grow rapidly. In 2012, NC moved away from its liberal annexation laws. Now the population growth in Charlotte is primarily in-fill and new apartments along the rail lines. The planner from Tyson's Corner earlier in this blog was speaking to the positive impact of redirecting growth at this stage of Charlotte's growth when the population is beginning to increase significantly.
For example, CLT has 6 bar districts and all but one are located in city center or just outside city center. When I traveled to ATL in the 1980s and 1990s, I remember Buckhead being the bar district. I don't recall any other bar districts. I remember restaurants and bars being spread out. But in CLT, I think entertainment congregating in and around downtown is a direct result of this redirecting of growth near the rail lines. The planner from Tyson's Corner referred to this as tightening the belt. But there are people living in the CLT region that are not at all aware of this impact. Most are probably not aware of the huge number of apartments built along the rail line in South End and now in NODA and University. Most are not aware of the huge number of old warehouses that have been restored in these historic neighborhoods. This goes against the unofficial version that CLT has and is continuing to tear down its historic buildings.
Many do not realize that MARTA runs a very large bus system in ATL. CLT's city bus system is not nearly as large. For this reason, I am certain that MARTA moves far more passengers per capita than CATS. But I know that ATL did not attempt to redirect growth along its four subway lines that were built in the 1970s and 1980s. I do believe that was a mistake. We can see that now, but it was not easy to see then. CLT does have the opportunity to learn from ATL's mistakes. MARTA was never able to build its subway lines into the outlying counties. This was another mistake. We will see if CLT can accomplish this.
ATL and Fulton like CLT and Mecklenburg need to continue to become more dense. It will be interesting to see how dense each can become. It is not really fair to compare CLT to ATL today. ATL is far bigger and has more options for entertainment. I would not attempt to compare CLT with present-day ATL. In 30 years, I think CLT will resemble the ATL of today. While ATL's city population may be smaller than CLT's, we must remember that ATL is supporting a much larger and more populous region so ATL proper will have more restaurants and entertainment that CLT proper.
When I traveled to ATL years ago. I noticed that ATL made dramatic changes between my visits. The same can be said for CLT today. If someone lived in CLT 10 years ago and moved away, CLT is not the same place it was 10 years before.
I do remember that the AJC used to refer to ATL as a major city when ATL was CLT's present size, but the Observer does not do this. I think that ATL has been more determined to grow at all costs than CLT. While CLT has always promoted rapid growth, I don't think that it is interested in developing the traffic and sprawl of ATL. But we will have to see how effective CLT and the neighboring counties are in keeping sprawl and congestion under control.
Having spent so much time in ATL, I am very aware of the impact of ATL. I used to be amazed at its growth, and I used to think that CLT could never become what ATL was in 1988-1990. But I was wrong. CLT has become the ATL that I knew 30 years ago.
I think that ATL takes a lot of criticism that it does not deserve. Like CLT it has risen from humble beginnings. ATL has grown from approximately 1 million in 1960 to almost 6 million today. With that type of growth, there will be growing pains.
For those from other parts of the US, ATL did not begin growing rapidly until the 1960s, and CLT did not begin growing rapidly until the 1990s.
I would say that CLT is certainly more similar to ATL than it is different. I think both still have a bright future although each will have its own challenges. And neither city is utopia. Both have their issues, but both are relatively new cities. ATL over time may have the restaurants and other entertainment comparable to San Francisco. SF has been a major city much longer. But all cities in the US have their challenges and none are utopia.
In addition, many have criticized both CLT and ATL for being more suburban cities. However, most cities that have grown after the auto became prevalent are more suburban in nature. And ATL and CLT are still adding density. So they will become more dense just not as dense as northern cities. Some people moving from the north like the lower density as a change after living in a dense city.
To NC Observer, I am simply pointing out that some Raleigh people have like to stretch the truth frequently. Your response is not the type of response that I would expect from someone with higher intelligence and great culture.
To NC Observer, I am simply pointing out that some Raleigh people have like to stretch the truth frequently. Your response is not the type of response that I would expect from someone with higher intelligence and great culture.
I fell asleep reading your diatribe.
Anyhoo --- I retract my "douchebag' comment because I feel sorry for you.
Last edited by NC Observer; 02-03-2021 at 09:48 PM..
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