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As I said earlier, I traveled very often to ATL in the 1980s and early 1990s, ATL had one bar district then. The rest were spread around the metro. Then they spread from Sandy Springs and Roswell to downtown. Today CLT has a half dozen bar districts and approximately 45-50 breweries. Most of the bar districts are located in downtown and around historic neighborhoods surrounding downtown. CLT for 10-15 years has been among the top destinations for millineals and recent college graduates. It has recently jumped up dramatically in creating IT jobs. It is amazing to me that some people from ATL or Somewhere else are reporting info they may have heard from someone living in CLT 20 years ago. CLT is changing dramatically and quickly. It can change significantly over a 5 year period. It is also amazing to me that some people living in CLT, some of which comment on this the CLT forum, don’t really have an up to date understanding of the city he or she lives in.
The nightlife in CLT today is every bit as good or better than the nightlife in ATL in the 1980s. And it is probably better because it is mostly concentrated within a 2-3 mile area of downtown- downtown epicenter, downtown 6th street and North Tryon, Southend, NODA, plaza Midwood, LOSO, music factory. Again, nobody should be comparing CLT today with ATL today. There is no comparison. But the CLT today is very much like the ATL that I remember in the 1980s. We will have to wait and see how CLT grows to see if it ever resembles the ATL of today. But that is a good ways into the future before CLT reaches the almost 6 million population threshold of ATL today. And CLT may never hit that threshold. However, it is reasonable to assume that CLT will reach 3.5 to 4.0 million within the next 20 years.
CLT and Mecklenburg are now still growing rapidly. Although available land will soon be in low supply. But CLT is continuing to grow by creating higher densities along rail lines and plenty of in-fill. This will continue but what population will Meck be able to reach? Can it reach 1.6, 1.8 or 2 million? Maybe but once the population slows in Meck will outlying counties such as Union and Cabarrus have the same desire for high growth that the outlying counties of Cobb, Gwinnett, DeKalb have had? These are all important questions to be answered in the future.
These are the type discussion subjects that should be occurring in these forums. The discussions sometime turn into pissing contests. Sometimes people do no research or k ow little of the subject matter and make ridiculous statements causing the pissing contest to become more competitive. Everybody knows ATL is much bigger than CLT so I am surprised that there was a discussion about that.
It makes no sense to compare CLT with ATL today- there is little to compare. But is more worthwhile to compare the CLT of today with the ATL in the 1980s and 1990s, to discuss what CLT should and should not do to avoid some of the mistakes that ATL has made.
Also, there is this general consensus that CLT desire to be like ATL or become the next ATL. I guess some cannot resist these comparisons. But I can tell you that CLT is not interested in that. CLT is trying to redirect growth along rail lines, create density, walkable and biking neighborhoods. It was a different era in the 1980s (all about the auto) so ATL was not interested in creating inner city density in the 1980s and 1990s.CLT is its own city and it feels good about itself. CLT does not have the grow at all costs mindset of ATL. For example, ATL pursued and received all 4 major sports sports in the mid to late 1960s when it could not support them due to tis population of approximately 1.3 million in 1965. But CLT was recognized as the number city in the US for MLB expansion (by the commissioner of MLB), but CLT is not interested right now so it has rejected the idea. CLT does not feel that it is ready just yet.
CLT will not expand its freeways to 12, 14, 16 lanes. Additional capacity will not be with general purpose lanes but instead hot lanes. This will force people to use transit. But to be honest, I am not confident that this plan will work. ATL began having pretty serious congestion by the time they hosted the Olympic games in 1996 when its population was approx 3.5 million. By the time ATL hit 4.0 million in 2003, the congestion was getting bad. I think we can expect the same thing to happen in CLT. After all, ATL has a larger freeway system with more miles and more capacity than CLT, and ATL has a larger bus system that carries more passengers than CATS. CLT is planning for its Lynx transit lines to be only 4-5 transit lines and that is similar to ATL's 4 lines. So, if CLT’s infrastructure and transit are less than ATL’s then how we can we expect to have better results with congestion than ATL when our population reaches the same threshold?
The one difference is due to our location farther east, we may not have as much tourist traffic and commercial truck traffic passing through as ATL. Also, CLT has a way to go to come close to resembling The amount of truck traffic that ATL generates.
Last edited by The QC; 04-03-2021 at 01:40 PM..
Reason: grammatical error
Honestly, I have never liked Charlotte, it is bland and boring. Not Charlotte's fault, but it is NOT a tourist attraction by any means. It is a great place for conservative families, but it ends there. Plus Charlotte has a huge inferiority complex, not just from Atlanta, but from similar cities not far away such as Charleston, SC and WV, and Charlottesville, VA. I have many friends abroad and most of them do not know what Charlotte is. Sorry that is the truth. They are more familiar with Mayberry, due to Andy Griffith, one of my fav all time shows. It is very similar to "Tara" the fictional place in "Gone With The Wind", mostly asked by oriental tourists to Atlanta as to where it is.
Boring? I suppose it is if you have no social life or don't venture out and look for things. I have lived in more places than you. That is easy to see by the context of your postings. Things have slowed down since Covid-19, but Charlotte has practically anything you want that can be found in other places, maybe more, maybe less. But, in any case, to say it is boring is nonsensical. You should get involved in activities like people do instead of doing noting and being bored. I am interested in your idea of what is boring? Granted, we're not Rio, but boring, not in my life. I guess we are the third fastest growing big city due to boringness. Right?
Secondly, based on my experiences, nobody is envious of Atlanta. It is our big sister city to the south. We respect it, but don't necessarily want to be it. You said, "Charlotte has a huge inferiority complex, not just from Atlanta, but from similar cities not far away such as Charleston, S.C. and WV, and Charlottesville, Va." That makes no sense. How can Charlotte have a complex from another place. Many people around here enjoy going to Charleston, S.C. (definitely not the one in WV) and many people from these parts have family that go to Virginia Tech, but we are a different world and there is no need for comparisons. Charleston is a historic, beautiful, touristy town. Charlotte is a super large banking center with a population many times more than Charleston, S.C. Who compares and why? No stupid answers please.
Most people in Europe are familiar with Charlotte or at least heard of it. The only place where I have found that less than the majority have knowledge are remote parts of Eastern Europe where there are no airline connections to Charlotte and most commerce and trade is done with eastern Europe and/or Northeast Asia. Educate people in the big cites are familiar with the Charlotte from business dealings, news, sports, etc. Having lived in London many years and still having many friends and family there, anyone there that hasn't heard of Charlotte is ether ignorant or dead. Charlotte is on BBC news fairly often.
One way that I know you are not familiar with people abroad is your stating in regards to people there you claim to know that "They are more familiar with Mayberry due to Andy Griffith." Andy Griffith does not televise in Europe. I have been in and out of Europe for decade and I know.
You appear to be a lost soul in a place you resent for some personal reason. You seem to have a need for f others to thinking you are intelligent and worldly. Sorry dude, you aren't. Perhaps you would be happier in Charleston, West Virginia. You could impress people there perhaps.
To be honest, there are places I'd rather live that Charlotte on a permanent basis, but for the money, convenience, amenities, and other benefits living here offers me, I am fine. And, I am outgoing and do not find it boring at all. Opinions are fine, but when you go from an opinion to ridiculousness, it demands a response.
When you say it is a "great place for conservative families but it ends there," you lose credibility. Why isn't it a "great place" for liberals. It seems to me that it would be a utopia for them. That is the reason I think of moving.
I have studied population data for many decades. I have kept some old data from the past. Below is some population data from ATL's past and CLT currently.
Atlanta's 1960 SMSA Population
Fulton 556,326
DeKalb 256,782
Cobb 114,174
Clayton 46,365
Gwinnett 43,541
Total 1,017,188
Atlanta 1970 SMSA Population
Fulton 605,210
DeKalb 418,387
Cobb 196,793
Gwinnett 72,439
Clayton 98,126
Cherokee 31,059
Douglas 28,659
Newton 26,282
Henry 23,724
Walton 23,404
Rockdale 18,152
Paulding 17,520
Forsyth 16,928
Fayette 11,364
Butts 10,560
Total 1,595,517
Atlanta's 1980 SMSA Population
Fulton 589,904 648,951
DeKalb 483,024 1,072,928 (cumulative total)
Cobb 297,718 1,370,646
Gwinnett 166,903 1,537,549
Clayton 150,357 1,687,906
Douglas 54,573 1,742,479
Cherokee 51,699 1,794,178
Spalding 47,899 1,842,077
Coweta 39,268 1,881,345
Rockdale 36,747 1,918,092
Henry 36,309 1,954,401
Newton 34,489 1,988,890
Walton 31,211 2,020,101
Fayette 29,043 2,049,144
Forsyth 27,958 2,077,102
Paulding 26,110 2,103,212
Barrow 21,354 2,124,566
Butts 13,665 2,138,231
Total 2,138,231
Atlanta's 1990 MSA Population
Fulton 648,951 648,951
DeKalb 545,837 1,194,788
Cobb 447,745 1,642,533
Gwinnett 352,910 1,995,443
Clayton 182,052 2,177,495
Cherokee 90,204 2,267,699
Douglas 71,120 2,338,819
Fayette 62,415 2,401,234
Henry 58,741 2,459,975
Bartow 55,911 2,515,886
Spalding 54,457 2,570,343
Rockdale 54,091 2,624,434
Coweta 53,853 2,678,287
Forsyth 44,083 2,722,370
Newton 41,808 2,764,178
Paulding 41,611 2,805,789
Walton 38,586 2,844,375
Barrow 29,721 2,874,096
Butts 15,326 2,889,422
Jasper 8,453 2,897,875
Total 2,897,875
Last edited by The QC; 04-03-2021 at 03:02 PM..
Reason: error
Charlotte is a cozier and smaller version of Atlanta but the vibes are somewhat the same. Atlanta is a bit glitzier on the world stage. After all Elton John has a place in Atlanta but I can't see him living in Charlotte. Charlotte can be very grand and influential in terms of its wealth and the power players there. If one is seeking that out, they can certainly find this in Charlotte. The vibe there is affluence, money, power, status, wealth and that can be the currency of certain segments of the subculture. It has a grand, very well off, very affluent, very exclusive subculture if that is what one is seeking to find in a place. If upward mobility is what one seeks then Charlotte will not disappoint as this is very much alive and well. I feel like Atlanta is on a bit of a larger stage but Charlotte is like its younger sibling and quite a jewel in its own right in terms of affluence and status. It's not boring as some have noted. It is just not as glitzy, bright lights big city as Atlanta. Things can be a bit more subdued in Charlotte in comparison to Atlanta but look under the surface of that and you will see great wealth and affluence in certain circles. I knew a family there years ago and the kids drove beat up Buicks and the furniture was worn and dated, and make no mistake this family owned one of the largest retail stores in the Southeast. It's hard to explain but it was a part of the subcultural values underplaying things and not showing off. It was a subcultural social code at play- don't look like 'new money.' In Atlanta or Dallas, it could have been kids driving Mercedes and mom with huge, teased hair and gaudy jewels with the latest fads in interior design in the home..ie Southern Nouveau Riche. Charlotte has always had a different vibe than this with it being a truly traditional Southern city and I am presenting and outlining here a 'slice of the pie' of what can exist there.
Last edited by Mrs. Golightly; 04-03-2021 at 03:47 PM..
Also, there is this general consensus that CLT desire to be like ATL or become the next ATL. I guess some cannot resist these comparisons. But I can tell you that CLT is not interested in that. CLT is trying to redirect growth along rail lines, create density, walkable and biking neighborhoods. It was a different era in the 1980s (all about the auto) so ATL was not interested in creating inner city density in the 1980s and 1990s.CLT is its own city and it feels good about itself.
Charlotte wasn't interested in substantially increasing density and walkability in its core in the 80s and most of the 90s either. Its priorities changed as national attitudes began changing about these things, and it was the same for Atlanta. Charlotte benefits from being a younger city and getting rail transit after we as a nation began valuing our urban cores again, so it used light rail to encourage infill and density from the start. In this regard, Charlotte wasn't more forward-thinking or progressive than Atlanta; it was simply the beneficiary of timing as a younger city.
Quote:
CLT does not have the grow at all costs mindset of ATL. For example, ATL pursued and received all 4 major sports sports in the mid to late 1960s when it could not support them due to tis population of approximately 1.3 million in 1965. But CLT was recognized as the number city in the US for MLB expansion (by the commissioner of MLB), but CLT is not interested right now so it has rejected the idea. CLT does not feel that it is ready just yet.
Actually Atlanta only get the Falcons, the Braves, and the Hawks in the late 60s, and for the most part it has adequately supported them. It's professional hockey that has been Atlanta's Achilles heel of pro sports with its first NHL franchise, the Flames, only sticking around for 8 years (from '72-'80) and the Thrashers for 12, from 1999-2011. For the most part, inept ownership and management is to blame when it comes to hockey.
It's not completely accurate to say that Charlotte has no interest in pursuing an MLB franchise. But even so, professional soccer is the newest sport in town in Charlotte as opposed to MLB anyway so there's that.
Quote:
CLT will not expand its freeways to 12, 14, 16 lanes. Additional capacity will not be with general purpose lanes but instead hot lanes. This will force people to use transit. But to be honest, I am not confident that this plan will work. ATL began having pretty serious congestion by the time they hosted the Olympic games in 1996 when its population was approx 3.5 million. By the time ATL hit 4.0 million in 2003, the congestion was getting bad. I think we can expect the same thing to happen in CLT. After all, ATL has a larger freeway system with more miles and more capacity than CLT, and ATL has a larger bus system that carries more passengers than CATS. CLT is planning for its Lynx transit lines to be only 4-5 transit lines and that is similar to ATL's 4 lines. So, if CLT’s infrastructure and transit are less than ATL’s then how we can we expect to have better results with congestion than ATL when our population reaches the same threshold?
The one difference is due to our location farther east, we may not have as much tourist traffic and commercial truck traffic passing through as ATL. Also, CLT has a way to go to come close to resembling The amount of truck traffic that ATL generates.
Good points here. Both Atlanta and Charlotte are transportation and logistics hubs, but Atlanta much more so as it was founded as a rail hub and has a central location within the Southeast. Hopefully Charlotte does better when it comes to adequately expanding the regional primary and secondary highway network as it grows which is something Atlanta hasn't been the most proactive at.
Boring? I suppose it is if you have no social life or don't venture out and look for things. I have lived in more places than you. That is easy to see by the context of your postings. Things have slowed down since Covid-19, but Charlotte has practically anything you want that can be found in other places, maybe more, maybe less. But, in any case, to say it is boring is nonsensical. You should get involved in activities like people do instead of doing noting and being bored. I am interested in your idea of what is boring? Granted, we're not Rio, but boring, not in my life. I guess we are the third fastest growing big city due to boringness. Right?
Secondly, based on my experiences, nobody is envious of Atlanta. It is our big sister city to the south. We respect it, but don't necessarily want to be it. You said, "Charlotte has a huge inferiority complex, not just from Atlanta, but from similar cities not far away such as Charleston, S.C. and WV, and Charlottesville, Va." That makes no sense. How can Charlotte have a complex from another place. Many people around here enjoy going to Charleston, S.C. (definitely not the one in WV) and many people from these parts have family that go to Virginia Tech, but we are a different world and there is no need for comparisons. Charleston is a historic, beautiful, touristy town. Charlotte is a super large banking center with a population many times more than Charleston, S.C. Who compares and why? No stupid answers please.
Most people in Europe are familiar with Charlotte or at least heard of it. The only place where I have found that less than the majority have knowledge are remote parts of Eastern Europe where there are no airline connections to Charlotte and most commerce and trade is done with eastern Europe and/or Northeast Asia. Educate people in the big cites are familiar with the Charlotte from business dealings, news, sports, etc. Having lived in London many years and still having many friends and family there, anyone there that hasn't heard of Charlotte is ether ignorant or dead. Charlotte is on BBC news fairly often.
One way that I know you are not familiar with people abroad is your stating in regards to people there you claim to know that "They are more familiar with Mayberry due to Andy Griffith." Andy Griffith does not televise in Europe. I have been in and out of Europe for decade and I know.
You appear to be a lost soul in a place you resent for some personal reason. You seem to have a need for f others to thinking you are intelligent and worldly. Sorry dude, you aren't. Perhaps you would be happier in Charleston, West Virginia. You could impress people there perhaps.
To be honest, there are places I'd rather live that Charlotte on a permanent basis, but for the money, convenience, amenities, and other benefits living here offers me, I am fine. And, I am outgoing and do not find it boring at all. Opinions are fine, but when you go from an opinion to ridiculousness, it demands a response.
When you say it is a "great place for conservative families but it ends there," you lose credibility. Why isn't it a "great place" for liberals. It seems to me that it would be a utopia for them. That is the reason I think of moving.
Not sure if you realize you were responding to a post from 2012 by someone who's since been banned (he was a perennial troll when it came to Charlotte for whatever reason).
I think on the topic of Atlanta vs "Anywhere else in the South with fewer people"; the focus leans towards the population diffence. In my opinion, the focus should be on the reasons behind the population difference. Atlanta is not only a better place for blacks to launch their entertainment careers. It's a better place for all colors of people to launch their careers.
With that said, I applaud the efforts of Wake Forest and Atrium health when it comes to bringing a medical school to Midtown Charlotte in 2024. Hopefully, Wake Forest will evaluate this market and decide to bring a law school to Midtown as well.
One of the biggest differences between Georgia and NC is how Georgia's largest city has embraced higher education. In Atlanta, it has been long understood that you need to be a major city when it comes to business, sports, blue-collar careers, white-collar careers, and higher education. The growth of entertainment in Atlanta was a by-product of Atlanta doing so well with these basic fundamentals. Charlotte (for whatever reason) became comfortable with ceding higher educational opportunities to smaller communities within NC and SC. Imagine what Charlotte would be now if it had made becoming the higher education capital of the Carolinas a priority decades ago?
On the other hand, Johnson & Wales University (if my memory is correct) closed two campuses in Charleston and Norfolk and basically consolidated them into an Uptown Charlotte campus. Northeastern University opened its Charlotte campus in 2011 downtown and has since launched an accelerated Bachelor of Science in nursing program (only 16 months for those who already hold a Bachelor of Science in another field). I have already mentioned the plans of Wake Forest and Atrium health, but there are also plans for a medical school campus by UNC health and Novant (though the details of those plans have not been released yet). We also have an uptown campus of UNC Charlotte. Lastly, we have the central campus of Central Piedmont community college in uptown that has an articulation agreement with the University of North Carolina system. Interestingly enough, all of these institutions that I have named are connected by light rail and Streetcar; making it easier for those who choose not to drive to travel between them. These are all great moves and great efforts by the city of Charlotte. However, what would Charlotte be today if these same efforts were made in the early 1980s?
My point here is that in a lot of ways, present-day Charlotte now offers many of the same advantages as present-day Atlanta. However, Atlanta is still much larger because Atlanta had its head in the game 30 to 40 years ago while Charlotte was still sleeping....
When I was in Paris, many Parisians knew of Charlotte - mostly because of the "really nice" airport.
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Many people around here enjoy going to Charleston, S.C. (definitely not the one in WV) and many people from these parts have family that go to Virginia Tech, but we are a different world and there is no need for comparisons. Charleston is a historic, beautiful, touristy town. Charlotte is a super large banking center with a population many times more than Charleston, S.C. Who compares and why? No stupid answers please. 
