Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
LOL, I'm hardly being selective. I recognize that culture isn't static and that although Charlotte is still by and large rooted in (Piedmont) Southern culture that others are coming into the mix. And I never said that "all it means to be Southern is to fix BBQ and grow greens and say things like 'have a blessed day'"; I merely cited those as some examples and I'm pretty sure you know that. It would be nearly impossible to be exhaustive about all of Charlotte's Southern characteristics. And furthermore, my major point of contention with you was this whole mid-Atlantic thing which I don't see at all and you still have yet to give examples of how Charlotte is specifically becoming mid-Atlantic--not "non-Southern," but mid-Atlantic in particular.
I don't have time for a treatise or a white paper to satisfy you, Mutiny.
If you think it is Southern here, good for you (if that is what you like).
I did state why I feel this city is more mid-Atlantic than Southern. I think, with the exception of traffic, that Charlotte could be located in Fairfax County, VA and in the next 15 years, it is going to be even MORE comparable to Fairfax, VA.
I think URBAN explained it all very well.
That's all I have to say about that. The South I know (and I am 2 x plus your age) is evidently not the South you have ever been exposed to. That includes losing our textile and furniture industry - and many of the cultural traditions that have vanished.
I don't have time for a treatise or a white paper to satisfy you, Mutiny.
ROFL! That's a good one. All I asked was for a few specific mid-Atlantic qualities that you think Charlotte is adopting. I don't see what's so hard about that and I DEFINITELY don't see why it would require a treatise or dissertation.
Quote:
I did state why I feel this city is more mid-Atlantic than Southern. I think, with the exception of traffic, that Charlotte could be located in Fairfax County, VA and in the next 15 years, it is going to be even MORE comparable to Fairfax, VA.
You did, and none of it is specifically mid-Atlantic. Fairfax, VA could practically be an edge city here in Atlanta and nobody would find it characteristically out of place whatsoever but maybe you're just not familiar enough with Atlanta to know that. Plus, I thought you said the DC area isn't the best example of what mid-Atlantic is???? As of 2010, Fairfax County had a Black population under 10%, an Asian population of 17.5%, and a Hispanic population of 15.5%. The Hispanic population is similar to Charlotte's (13%), but Charlotte's Black population is 35% and the Asian population is only 5%. You honestly think Asians are going to displace Blacks in Charlotte in 15 years? And at the same time, New South non-mid Atlantic metro Atlanta's second-largest county is now majority minority with a booming Asian population. But maybe you're not really talking demographically here, but economically. Even when it comes to that, I don't think Charlotte is going to be landing a bunch of federal agency headquarters and defense contractors anytime soon.
I just see waaayyy too many inconsistencies in your whole "mid-Atlantic" argument. Sorry if you get mad about that, but it's not my fault.
Quote:
I think URBAN explained it all very well.
He drew a comparison with the Midwest which I can somewhat see but said nothing about the mid-Atlantic.
Quote:
That's all I have to say about that. The South I know (and I am 2 x plus your age) is evidently not the South you have ever been exposed to. That includes losing our textile and furniture industry - and many of the cultural traditions that have vanished.
Carry on.
For the umpteenth time, I never said the South isn't changing. Did you not see me give the definition of "New South" in the earlier post which mainly has to do with shifting economies? I never said other cultures aren't becoming part of the landscape. Perhaps because of our age differences, we have different vantage points as it relates to the hallmarks of Southern culture. However, I still see enough differences between Charlotte and some other parts of the country to know that Charlotte, at its core, is still Southern even amidst all the changes. I DO know that it is NOT mid-Atlantic.
In response to this thread, I thought about the "State of Metropolitan America" report by the Brookings Institute which categorized the nation's 100 largest metros based on indicators such as diversity, population growth, and educational attainment within the last decade. Charlotte is categorized as a "New Heartland" metro and here's the description:
Quote:
New Heartland metro areas are also fast growing, highly educated locales, but have lower shares of Hispanic and Asian populations than the national average. These 19 metro areas include many in the “New South” where blacks are the dominant minority group, such as Atlanta, Charlotte, and Richmond, as well as largely white metro areas throughout the Midwest and West, such as Indianapolis, Kansas City, and Portland (OR ). The service-based economies of these metro areas attracted many middle-class migrants, both white and black, during the 2000s. That diverse in-migration has given the New Heartland areas a more racially equitable educational profile than other metropolitan types.
I thought that was interesting as Charlotte is grouped with other New South metros and some Midwestern metros that were specifically mentioned earlier.
Again . . . this is an opinion forum. I gave my opinion. I backed up WHY. Not interested in arguing with you.
All I asked for was some proof that the things you mentioned--where people are moving from, more Catholic churches, more Italian restaurants--were specific mid-Atlantic qualities. Atlanta has even more of these things (as well as other Southern cities nowhere near the Atlantic coast), yet you say it's New South and not mid-Atlantic. It doesn't make sense especially when Charlotte lacks the most visible characteristics of true mid-Atlantic cities (and will never get many of them even as time goes on as they are a result of geography and history) which I pointed out twice. I really would like to have that conversation with you as far as a comparison with Atlanta goes but I'm guessing that you're probably not really knowledgeable enough about Atlanta to truly understand why your earlier statement rings a bit unreasonable.
Quote:
Have a "blessed day."
Well I take my spirituality quite seriously and would never say something like this facetiously. But I do genuinely hope that your day is indeed blessed.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,812 posts, read 34,654,152 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Well I'm barely into my 30's and have only lived in the Southeast, but I do visit DC semi-frequently (back in January during MLK weekend most recently) and was last in Philly in 2010. I know enough about the region to know that there are very distinct differences between it and Charlotte. Winston-Salem is probably the closest thing NC has to a true mid-Atlantic city.
Ani & I are babyboomers. That mean that many years before you were a twinkle in your parents' eyes we were taught that there was a connection between NC & the MidAtlantic. She is a NC native & I am a Michigan native.
Ani spoke, earlier in the thread, of the "coming out" parties. They still occur in Philadelphia. There are many similarities that you do not know about just because you made a trip there.
What she & I speak of are similarities. You speak of differences. I moved to the Philadelphia metro with my family as a teenager & stayed over 40 years. Ani had family there & still does & was in a position to spend time there & see what the locals see, not the tourist side. Neither of us is a native of the MidAtlantic, but both of us have seen the area up close, as the natives do, with the eyes of outsiders.
Ani & I are babyboomers. That mean that many years before you were a twinkle in your parents' eyes we were taught that there was a connection between NC & the MidAtlantic. She is a NC native & I am a Michigan native.
Ani spoke, earlier in the thread, of the "coming out" parties. They still occur in Philadelphia. There are many similarities that you do not know about just because you made a trip there.
What she & I speak of are similarities. You speak of differences. I moved to the Philadelphia metro with my family as a teenager & stayed over 40 years. Ani had family there & still does & was in a position to spend time there & see what the locals see, not the tourist side. Neither of us is a native of the MidAtlantic, but both of us have seen the area up close, as the natives do, with the eyes of outsiders.
Let's be crystal clear here. Ani said Charlotte was trending mid-Atlantic because "it's where people are moving here from," more Catholic churches, and more Italian restaurants. Those were the only three things she explicitly mentioned, and I didn't see you mention any at all (and if you did, please direct me to that post). There's absolutely nothing about any of those things that are specifically or stereotypically mid-Atlantic. Again, Atlanta has all of those things, more so than Charlotte, yet Atlanta can hardly be called mid-Atlantic.
And I've been to Philly more than once (and the DMV area several times), but go ahead and spell out these similarities that you speak of but fail to explicitly list. I did it for the differences (which are pronounced and plentiful); if the similarities are so obvious and plentiful, then you should be able to do the same. I have yet to hear someone from DC, Baltimore, Wilmington, Philly, etc. visit or move to Charlotte and say it's like a mini version of where they are from.
Ummmm...not really sure how that's really relevant. I already know that NC was the last to enter the Confederacy, but anyone even remotely familiar with Civil War history in NC knows that Charlotte in particular was pretty much pro-secessionist:
he second half of April 1861 witnessed a flurry of activity at the North Carolina Military Institute . A particularly dramatic scene occurred when the cadets raised a secession flag, made by the ladies of Charlotte, over Steward's Hall so the passengers on the trains moving north out of South Carolina could see it. James H. Lane , a graduate of the Virginia Military Institute and a member of Hill's faculty, described what happened when the next locomotive passed by the campus. ". . . the artillery thundered its greetings to South Carolina as the train passed slowly by; the male passengers yelled themselves hoarse; the ladies waved their handkerchiefs and threw kisses to these brave boys." One prominent North Carolinian called Charlotte a “young Charleston” because of the firmness with which the majority of white citizens supported secession...
Unlike some sections of North Carolina, especially the Albemarle Sound and Pamlico Sound region, the Quaker settlements in and around Randolph County, and some parts of the mountains, Charlotte-Mecklenburg remained steadfast in its commitment to the Confederate cause. “If the whole South was imbued with the same spirit of resistance to Yankee tyranny and oppression as that which characterizes the people of good old Mecklenburg,” commented one soldier who visited Charlotte in 1863, “no one need fear the result of the mighty struggle which is now going on.”
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,812 posts, read 34,654,152 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNative
I have spent very little time in the south, and absolutely no time in Charlotte. My wife and I, however, are looking into various southern cities, and we're looking for a large city with an unmistakably southern sort of culture and feel (southern moss, sweet tea, and on and on with the stereotypes). I know that Charlotte has experienced a great deal of in-migration from distinctly non-southern newcomers. How much has Charlotte been changed by it? Just how southern is Charlotte and, especially, surrounding areas like Belmont, Henderson, Gastonia, etc.?
Gastonia has over 70K people. They are rebuilding after the collapse of the textile industry.
This is not the land of Gone With the Wind. You don't say if you are looking for a place to retire or if you're self employed. If you specifically want somewhere that matches your description, this is not the place for you. If you are interested anyway, we can try to help you.
Well I'm barely into my 30's and have only lived in the Southeast, but I do visit DC semi-frequently (back in January during MLK weekend most recently) and was last in Philly in 2010. I know enough about the region to know that there are very distinct differences between it and Charlotte. Winston-Salem is probably the closest thing NC has to a true mid-Atlantic city.
The cultures in Richmond, DC, Baltimore and Philly are different yet all are classified as mid-atlantic. Culturally, Richmond is southern but architecturally built much like a northeastern city (rowhouses, etc). To a certain extent, PG County MD (DC) and Baltimore metro folk live in two different worlds altogether but there a regional similarites.
The larger NC metros are heavily influenced by the geographical mid-atlantic states due to in-migration and general location for business commerce but remain southern at the core, as does Atlanta.
Of the larger metros in NC, the Raleigh/Durham area is the closet thing to mid-Atlantic, especially Durham, it's definitely a different demographic animal for this state.
The OP isn't going to find a wealth of southern charm in the Triangle, Triad, Charlotte or Atlanta although you can still order sweet tea with all possessing pockets of southern hospitality.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,812 posts, read 34,654,152 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Let's be crystal clear here. Ani said Charlotte was trending mid-Atlantic because "it's where people are moving here from," more Catholic churches, and more Italian restaurants. Those were the only three things she explicitly mentioned, and I didn't see you mention any at all (and if you did, please direct me to that post). There's absolutely nothing about any of those things that are specifically or stereotypically mid-Atlantic. Again, Atlanta has all of those things, more so than Charlotte, yet Atlanta can hardly be called mid-Atlantic.
And I've been to Philly more than once (and the DMV area several times), but go ahead and spell out these similarities that you speak of but fail to explicitly list. I did it for the differences (which are pronounced and plentiful); if the similarities are so obvious and plentiful, then you should be able to do the same. I have yet to hear someone from DC, Baltimore, Wilmington, Philly, etc. visit or move to Charlotte and say it's like a mini version of where they are from.
Ummmm...not really sure how that's really relevant. I already know that NC was the last to enter the Confederacy, but anyone even remotely familiar with Civil War history in NC knows that Charlotte in particular was pretty much pro-secessionist:
he second half of April 1861 witnessed a flurry of activity at the North Carolina Military Institute . A particularly dramatic scene occurred when the cadets raised a secession flag, made by the ladies of Charlotte, over Steward's Hall so the passengers on the trains moving north out of South Carolina could see it. James H. Lane , a graduate of the Virginia Military Institute and a member of Hill's faculty, described what happened when the next locomotive passed by the campus. ". . . the artillery thundered its greetings to South Carolina as the train passed slowly by; the male passengers yelled themselves hoarse; the ladies waved their handkerchiefs and threw kisses to these brave boys." One prominent North Carolinian called Charlotte a “young Charleston” because of the firmness with which the majority of white citizens supported secession...
Unlike some sections of North Carolina, especially the Albemarle Sound and Pamlico Sound region, the Quaker settlements in and around Randolph County, and some parts of the mountains, Charlotte-Mecklenburg remained steadfast in its commitment to the Confederate cause. “If the whole South was imbued with the same spirit of resistance to Yankee tyranny and oppression as that which characterizes the people of good old Mecklenburg,” commented one soldier who visited Charlotte in 1863, “no one need fear the result of the mighty struggle which is now going on.”
Perhaps you should keep reading that article. Before the war was over, there were chapters of the Heroes of America in Charlotte, as well as Raleigh.
The OP asked about the Southern-ness of Charlotte. I take questions like that to be very generic & not skewed to any ethnicity. Urban made a post which was very good & informative to me. He indicated that there is a black view & a white view. Your views pointing out differences sort of fit with what he indicated is the black view. There is no need to bully 2 older white women. I've written extensively on this topic in previous threads & have been hounded & bashed by posters stating what are essentially your views.
I will be happy to discuss particulars with the OP, but I am not going to get into an arguement with you.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
