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Old 04-28-2012, 01:55 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,141,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandMike View Post
I also agree that there is a disparity in convictions due to poor folks not having the money to engage top notch attorneys.


You have not sat in on a criminal court case to see our DA's and Public defenders, turning people loose through court faster than thay can get through a line at McDonald's. Money for attorneys is not an issue in our legal system. It's our system that is putting criminals back out on the street.

How many times have you seen criminals on TV with multiple arrests still commiting crime in public?

What's even the best part is once loose in society, they get entitlements
to fund their business activities all over again.

Let's face it, my comments are not making people mad, its presenting the truth that's makes people mad and because they know it.
I sure do know about the revolving door at the jail here. I don't know what the answers are, tho. I think many of the perps in Charlotte assume they won't have any real hard time to serve and so they figure chancing getting caught isn't that big of a deal. But then, I have read reports that say long prison terms are no deterrent to crime. I do think having folks in jail at least keeps them off the street, and thus, makes the city safer.

On the other hand, it seems we are churning out offenders at very young ages these days, so when you get one off the street, another takes his place. I assume this is true for drug trafficking as well as robberies.

It seems there are no quick fixes or easy solutions.
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Long Island, ny
152 posts, read 251,185 times
Reputation: 113
NYC in the 80s was a drug filled, crime haven. Then Mayor Rudy Guillani took over...love him or hate him...he cleaned up the city! NYC is still one of the safer big cities in the US. You need strong govt leadership with strong police presence & tough laws/policies. If not, the city will just be spinning it's wheels in regard to crime.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,372,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shirlgirl71 View Post
NYC in the 80s was a drug filled, crime haven. Then Mayor Rudy Guillani took over...love him or hate him...he cleaned up the city! NYC is still one of the safer big cities in the US. You need strong govt leadership with strong police presence & tough laws/policies. If not, the city will just be spinning it's wheels in regard to crime.
I watched a show called Freakanomics that had economist breaking down stats on Rudy Gullliani's crime stats. Statistics showed crime dropping before he took office and crime dropping drastically all over the US in large cities.

The theory was Roe vs Wade and legalizing abortion in the early 70's eliminated a generation of unwanted children who would turn to crime due to neglect.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:20 PM
 
1,475 posts, read 3,372,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
What can be done, really?

Are the crimes being committed by repeat offenders? Are most of them even solved (in other words, do we know, with certainty, how many crimes are committed by repeat offenders).

If the majority of crimes are committed by repeat offenders, then why are they in our communities?

CMPD is not responsible for the crime rate. Criminals are responsible for the crime rate. Courts are responsible for letting repeat offenders back out into the community.

When I hear folks pointing out the obvious about the percentage of criminals who are black, I don't think they are necessarily racists. Rather, I think they are frustrated that the black community harbors these perps, refuses to turn them over to authorities. I, personally, can understand why folks don't want to get involved, b/c I would definitely be worried about retribution and revenge to me and my family.

I don't think it is helpful to look at crime as a race issue, but I certainly can see why everyone, regardless of their own race, would be discouraged that we continually see footage of black males in hoodies on video footage. It is what it is. No one is perpetuating a stereotype or being biased. Most of the crime in this city is committed by black males.

Are you going to say that is not the truth?

ETA: Insofar as community involvement could possibly help lead to arrests, then it is valid to ask why the black community is harboring criminals. If that is b/c of fear (and that would seem logical) then we, as a community, should be looking at how to protect folks who would step forward if they knew their families would not pay the price for simply being good citizens.
Perfect post.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:40 PM
 
1,475 posts, read 3,372,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post

You can't actually read ClevelandMike's comments and not note the not-so-subtly coded racism. And I think that type of racism is certainly one reason why black leaders get defensive. It's nothing if not an attack on their sons or their sons' friends.


How is it "racism" to point out a FACT? Aren't most fairly intelligent people able to distinguish between the criminal element and that of law-abiding, decent people? Does it bother you simply because you are black, too? So you group yourself with ALL blacks? If you said, "Most serial killers are white males", I wouldn't call you racist. I accept that as FACT. Yes, most serial killers ARE white males. Does this make me feel inferior as a white male, because someone may point this out? No. And pointing out that most street-level, random crime is committed by black offenders should not offend any law-abiding black person or make them feel inferior enough to cry racism. What it should do is to encourage black leaders that have direct influence on these young black perps to stand up more publicly against these crimes and the actions and decisions that lead to them. It's about taking responsibility for the young people in our communities. This can be done through church outreach, youth organizations, and SIMPLY providing good role models. These things are done on a small level. It is going to take a serious paradigm shift within the low-income black community that seems to be VERY slowly happening. Law-abiding, decent, socialized people such as yourself should be disgusted with black crime, as I am with white crime. What is saddening is that instead of lifting these young black people out of poverty, illiteracy, etc, many black leaders and entertainment idols MAKE EXCUSES for them instead. Think about that. If the white community tries to get involved in the black community on this level, we are immediately branded RACIST. Nice job. We will take care of our communities, and let you enjoy yours. This mentality is becoming more common because of the "racism games".

That is part of what Cleveland Mike was pointing out, and of course, you divert attention to all of his points by whining about "racism" without addressing the issue at hand. Very typical. He made some good points, and it would serve you well to read through them without your civil rights glasses on. Why should my tax money go to pamper the ones who do not do their fair share in society? Why do Rev Al and Jesse Jackson continuously jump at the opportunity to show the world how RACIST we are against black people, but say nothing when a 7-year-old black child is killed in a black neighborhood by gunfire? WE are ALL frustrated at the issues that face not only the low income, black community, but all of the low-income, uneducated sectors of all races in our communities. It is a fact that these same perps are usually the same ones that pretend that they are VICTIMS of society, then go out to cause havoc. Many people, especially in the black community, scream that white people should be more understanding of their needs (as if they are any different than our own in modern times) but they hold themselves to a different standard.

Last edited by PeytonC; 04-28-2012 at 04:04 PM..
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:22 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,141,087 times
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Peyton, another honest post that speaks the truth. This is such a sensitive subject, b/c we do, indeed, ALL want safe communities for ourselves and our children to grow up in. That includes safe schools, where the drug problems often begin and it is as juveniles that many of the repeat offenders get their start in crime.

I do believe that parental responsibility plays a huge role in whether or not a kid will turn to crime. I think absentee, disengaged and unprepared parents definitely affect a child's choices as well as his/her feelings about the world in general, and lousy parenting can lead to socially maladaptive children who grow up angry and with antisocial tendencies (if not as sociopaths). But I don't see how the rest of society can rescue at risk children without literally removing them from homes, and that is not what the mission of child protective services seems to be. Rather, their goal seems to be to keep families together, using social programs as bandaids. It does seem that there are a lot of "throw away" children out there, but not because society didn't give them a chance; It was their own parents who tossed them to the wolves.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:21 PM
 
8,402 posts, read 20,336,309 times
Reputation: 6775
What would make a difference? I don't have all the answers but I've done a lot of reading, discussion and given this a lot of consideration.

1. Clean out death row everywhere, by actually executing the absolute known guilty. We can make a lot of arguments here, but there are plenty of convicted murderers that should not be alive. Continue to execute the guilty murderers going forward.

2. Legalize marijuana, and put all the controls in place. I'm not going to rehash (pun intended ) all the particulars here.

3. Release all low level marijuana offenders. I don't know what the breaking point should be, but what we spend on marijuana legislation, policing and incarceration is insane.

With that done, legal systems at all levels have saved many billions of dollars, unplugged the judicial system greatly, and opened up countless jail slots. NOW we can actually incarcerate 1st time offenders for real time, not a slap on the wrist.

I'm expecting certain comments to be made, as they always are when I bring up these suggestions.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:00 PM
 
1,475 posts, read 3,372,857 times
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All very good suggestions, vmax.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:07 AM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,279,470 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeytonC View Post
How is it "racism" to point out a FACT? Aren't most fairly intelligent people able to distinguish between the criminal element and that of law-abiding, decent people? Does it bother you simply because you are black, too? So you group yourself with ALL blacks? If you said, "Most serial killers are white males", I wouldn't call you racist. I accept that as FACT. Yes, most serial killers ARE white males. Does this make me feel inferior as a white male, because someone may point this out? No. And pointing out that most street-level, random crime is committed by black offenders should not offend any law-abiding black person or make them feel inferior enough to cry racism. What it should do is to encourage black leaders that have direct influence on these young black perps to stand up more publicly against these crimes and the actions and decisions that lead to them. It's about taking responsibility for the young people in our communities. This can be done through church outreach, youth organizations, and SIMPLY providing good role models. These things are done on a small level. It is going to take a serious paradigm shift within the low-income black community that seems to be VERY slowly happening. Law-abiding, decent, socialized people such as yourself should be disgusted with black crime, as I am with white crime. What is saddening is that instead of lifting these young black people out of poverty, illiteracy, etc, many black leaders and entertainment idols MAKE EXCUSES for them instead. Think about that. If the white community tries to get involved in the black community on this level, we are immediately branded RACIST. Nice job. We will take care of our communities, and let you enjoy yours. This mentality is becoming more common because of the "racism games".
I don't have much time to respond here but will give it a shot. I am a white male BTW.

You can't seriously say that the discussion was a simple recitation of "facts." I have agreed on the "facts" and have no problem discussing them. So you say you're not offended when people discuss the "fact" that most serial killers are white men. Does the discussion ever turn to suspicion of ALL white men simply because most serial killers are white? When a serial killer case comes about, do you hear people talking about the crisis of mental health in the "white" community? Are all white men now accused of being sick puppies? Are white men walking down the street targeted be police because of it? No.

Again, it's not the discussion of facts, it's the tone and implication of the discussion that sets the stage for defensiveness and misunderstanding. No one was whining about racism. What ClevelandMike said was simply typical racist blather about "certain groups" and "the 1960s" and "entitlements." There was nothing in it that was a level-headed discussion of "facts."

None of this blather gets to the issue. It's just some angry white guy finding an outlet for his preconceived notions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PeytonC View Post
That is part of what Cleveland Mike was pointing out, and of course, you divert attention to all of his points by whining about "racism" without addressing the issue at hand. Very typical. He made some good points, and it would serve you well to read through them without your civil rights glasses on.
"Parts of Charlotte are turning into South Chicago. It's been brewing for some time now. This is not the 1960's where groups were needing to be protected. We live in current times where these groups have taken advantage of "help". They expect it and they feel as if they are entitled to it. With all the extra time on their hands (no jobs or education needed....) they commit mayhem."

You see "points" in this? There is nothing here that is actionable. Just whining about racial groups. It's ugly. It's divisive. It's bullsh*t. I called it out. Get over it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PeytonC View Post
Why should my tax money go to pamper the ones who do not do their fair share in society?
Who is talking about pampering anyone? Where does this idea that discussing economic and racial inequalities has anything to do with "pampering" people. You do realize that most tax breaks and credits go to the middle-class don't you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeytonC View Post
Why do Rev Al and Jesse Jackson continuously jump at the opportunity to show the world how RACIST we are against black people, but say nothing when a 7-year-old black child is killed in a black neighborhood by gunfire? WE are ALL frustrated at the issues that face not only the low income, black community, but all of the low-income, uneducated sectors of all races in our communities. It is a fact that these same perps are usually the same ones that pretend that they are VICTIMS of society, then go out to cause havoc. Many people, especially in the black community, scream that white people should be more understanding of their needs (as if they are any different than our own in modern times) but they hold themselves to a different standard.
If you can't recognize that there are economic and racial structural inequities, then you really don't have your eyes open.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:10 AM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,279,470 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by shirlgirl71 View Post
NYC in the 80s was a drug filled, crime haven. Then Mayor Rudy Guillani took over...love him or hate him...he cleaned up the city! NYC is still one of the safer big cities in the US. You need strong govt leadership with strong police presence & tough laws/policies. If not, the city will just be spinning it's wheels in regard to crime.
Giuliani did some good for NYC but at the expense of what made the city a place that the middle class could live. He had the NYPD destroy homeless people's meager posessions and did little but bus homeless people to New Jersey at 4 in the morning.

Crime was going down throughout the country in the 90s, so he caught that wave. Add that to the financial industry boom (that we found out was really kind of fake) and Manhattan gentrified quickly.
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