Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Are the crimes being committed by repeat offenders? Are most of them even solved (in other words, do we know, with certainty, how many crimes are committed by repeat offenders).
If the majority of crimes are committed by repeat offenders, then why are they in our communities?
These are the questions that should be asked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
When I hear folks pointing out the obvious about the percentage of criminals who are black, I don't think they are necessarily racists. Rather, I think they are frustrated that the black community harbors these perps, refuses to turn them over to authorities. I, personally, can understand why folks don't want to get involved, b/c I would definitely be worried about retribution and revenge to me and my family.
You can't actually read ClevelandMike's comments and not note the not-so-subtly coded racism. And I think that type of racism is certainly one reason why black leaders get defensive. It's nothing if not an attack on their sons or their sons' friends. Why the hell would I want to work with someone who automatically views people who look like you as "criminal."
Especially when the people who most often wind up being victims of crimes also look like you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
I don't think it is helpful to look at crime as a race issue, but I certainly can see why everyone, regardless of their own race, would be discouraged that we continually see footage of black males in hoodies on video footage. It is what it is. No one is perpetuating a stereotype or being biased. Most of the crime in this city is committed by black males.
Are you going to say that is not the truth?
Clearly I am not saying it's not the truth. But again, making it a racial thing just makes it worse.
The differences in punishment between the races makes it pretty obvious that there is a disparity. What is dismissed as simple "boys will be boys" behavior for white kids becomes Class 1 misdemeanor charges for black kids and then things go downhill from there.
Do you think this might be (in part) because undesirables are coming to Charlotte ahead of the DNC and selling their "wares"...and taking very drastic actions when things don't go as planned? There have been three murders in the University City area in the last few months..and all three were reported to be drug deals. These murders are in areas that had a little minor gang activity and crime issues and have been cleaned up. So, this puzzle is one that I am sure is the topic of conversation at the top of the house (as they say).
As for being like the S. side of Chicago...that is doubtful. Now, I am a Northsider, and so, not a fan of the south side, but, the comparison is pretty far-fetched. The murder rate on the south side of Chicago is far and above the whole of Charlotte....
Do you think this might be (in part) because undesirables are coming to Charlotte ahead of the DNC and selling their "wares"...and taking very drastic actions when things don't go as planned? There have been three murders in the University City area in the last few months..and all three were reported to be drug deals. These murders are in areas that had a little minor gang activity and crime issues and have been cleaned up. So, this puzzle is one that I am sure is the topic of conversation at the top of the house (as they say).
I wouldn't think the DNC has much to do with it.
There has been some increased drug violence in the UNCC area this Spring. With 20,000 students, it (like all big schools) is a HUGE market for drug dealers and has been for quite some time. Maybe there has been a shakeup in the drug ring providing up there? I know they sentenced this guy this week, but he's been arrested for almost 2 years.
I am on an iPad aand too ignorant to know how to do quotations, but I would like to reply to what you wrote, Coped.
I agree with everything you said.
I also agree that there is a disparity in convictions due to poor folks not having the money to engage top notch attorneys. But I see that as a economicl issue not a race issue. However, I do understand your point, as far as who ends up being convicted.
However, look at how many of the criminals we do convict are repeat offenders, who have had their cases pled down over and over. Is that really any different than having a good attorney get someone's charges reduced? Especially if the perp in question (with the good attorney) is a first time offender?
The images I am talking about are not the mug shots or the photos of convicted criminals. These are the video tapes from surveillance cameras that I am talking about. Maybe these perps get caught; maybe they don't.
News outlets hesitate to even release the race of a suspect these days, b/c there has been criticism that the continual news reports about black males perpetrating crimes has created racial tensions. I find that so odd. It is what it is.
I don't feel shamed when a Southern white male commits a crime--I just wanna see justuce done. It doesn't matter to me what someone's race is -- if they committed a crime, they need to be brought to justice. Why is it assumed that most folks, regardless of race, don't feel the same way I do?
Again, I respect what you are saying about economic disparities affording wealthier folks better attorneys, but when you look at convictions, and repeat offenders, and cases that are pled down to lesser charges, I don't think there is such a big disparity, except perhaps in homocide or violent crime. But to my understanding, those crimes are not the majority of crimes committed in this city.
As far as economic disparity being cited as the reason people commit crime (and I do not think that is what you meant but I have read quotes from perps themselves who cited this as their "reason" for robbing a store or someone's home) that would be a ridiculous assertion, as folks who are poor -- don't have to steal to eat. A couple with one child gets over $500 a month in food stamps, so this whole class thing that I have heard others use as justification for crime (I want an iPad but can't afford it so I will steal yours) is insulting and morally bereft of reason.
I believe that a large percentage of criminal activity is related to drug addiction. If we want to lower the crime rate, then we need to come up with innovative programs to help addicts and to address drug trafficking, wh/ should probably include de-criminalizing drug possession, without intent to distribute.
Some criminal activity, however, is simply based on wanting to raise cash for a lifestyle that otherwise, the perp has done nothing to earn. That is an entitlement attitude that I don't have a clue how to address(and includes white collar crime).
I also agree that there is a disparity in convictions due to poor folks not having the money to engage top notch attorneys. But I see that as a financial issue not a race issue. However, I do understand your point, as far as who ends up being convicted.
However, look at how many of the criminals we do convict are repeat offenders, who have had their cases pled down over and over. Is that really any different than having a good attorney get someone's charges reduced? Especially if the perp in question (with the good attorney) is a first time offender?
The fact that there is a such thing as "top notch" attorneys is indicative of the systemic failure of the system to provide equitable justice. It's all about networking, exclusion and "buying" justice (or injustice as the case may be). The lawyers who know the most judges win the most cases. This is hardly equitable. And having cases dismissed versus charges pleaded down does make a huge difference. There is also often a difference at the sentencing stage.
The differences in convictions and sentencing are often written into law. Look at the disparity between powder and rock cocaine sentencing requirments that were only recently thrown out. "Black things" become felonies, "White things" become misdemeanors or traffic tickets.
It's quite difficult to separate financial issues from racial issues in this country. And just because it is a financial issue doesn't make it any less unjust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
The images I am talking about are not the mug shots or the photos of convicted criminals. These are the video tapes from surveillance cameras that I am talking about. Maybe these perps get caught; maybe they don't.
Well this brings up an interesting parallel. Think of all the white kids that don't get arrested for loitering or minor pot possession charges compared to all the black kids who do. This gets back to the assumption that black=criminal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
I don't feel shamed when a Southern white male commits a crime--I just wanna see justuce done. It doesn't matter to me what someone's race is -- if they committed a crime, they need to be brought to justice. Why is it assumed that most folks, regardless of race, don't feel the same way I do?
Well, you most likely don't hear people going on a tirade about "Southern white males" when a Southern white male commits a crime. No one is talking about that group. I assume if you heard people bemoaning how all Southern white males were criminals, it might make you a little wary of the group bemoaning this. It might make you less trusting of the police force, etc.
Furthermore, you know that if a white Southern male has been arrested, he almost definitely was caught red-handed and did something pretty stupid. That's just not as likely to be the case with black defendants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
Again, I respect what you are saying about economic disparities affording wealthier folks better attorneys, but when you look at convictions, and repeat offenders, and cases that are pled down to lesser charges, I don't think there is such a big disparity, except perhaps in homocide or violent crime. But to my understanding, those crimes are not the majority of crimes committed in this city.
The disparity in minor crime sentencing is much greater, I think. Disparity in Drug sentencing is a big problem. This study examined Meck County in 2000, so it's a bit old, but it found
As far as economic disparity being cited as the reason people commit crime (and I do not think that is what you meant but I have read quotes from perps themselves who cited this as their "reason" for robbing a store or someone's home) that would be a ridiculous assertion, as folks who are poor -- don't have to steal to eat. A couple with one child gets over $500 a month in food stamps, so this whole class thing that I have heard others use as justification for crime (I want an iPad but can't afford it so I will steal yours) is insulting and morally bereft of reason.
It is what it is. Poor people commit more street crime. There is more social disorganization in poor communities, which makes crime more attractive. It has ever been thus. There is nothing morally bereft about this explanation. It's fundamental human nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
I believe that a large percentage of criminal activity is related to drug addiction. If we want to lower the crime rate, then we need to come up with innovative programs to help addicts and to address drug trafficking, wh/ should probably include de-criminalizing drug possession, without intent to distribute.
Distribution is where the real violence starts. So I think legalizing and regulating the entire drug industry would go a long way to ending criminal violence. You would also need to do something about the employment problem. No one with any type of criminal record can get a job today. That's a whole lot of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
Some criminal activity, however, is simply based on wanting to raise cash for a lifestyle that otherwise, the perp has done nothing to earn. That is an entitlement attitude that I don't have a clue how to address(and includes white collar crime).
Coped, I wanted to thank you for taking the time to seriously address my thoughts. it is meaningful to have another perspective and to explain to me what I may not have considered or what I have a misperception about.
I have read what you wrote twice now, and I am sure I will want to re-read it many more times. Everything you said made total sense. I just wish someone would come up with actionable goals, whether that means legislation or social programs, that effectively stopped the cycle of crime. I do give this subject a lot of thought and know that nothing will change until voices at the grassroots level demand the change. Politicians, who have the power to change laws, always go for the easy solutions and the sound byte issues, i.e. "tough on crime" whatever the hell that means. :-(
Naturally, why would the CMPD tell the truth? Parts of Charlotte are turning into South Chicago. It's been brewing for some time now. This is not the 1960's where groups were needing to be protected. We live in current times where these groups have taken advantage of "help". They expect it and they feel as if they are entitled to it. With all the extra time on their hands (no jobs or education needed....) they commit mayhem.
I don't think the mass generalizations and racism that you're spewing will help much to combat crime.
The stat isn't racism. ClevelandMike's comment is. The issue at hand is crime and combating it. Not bitching about "certain groups."
Really? Racist comments? Have some fun yourself and look at the current mugshots and crimes commited for 4/27/2012 in Charlotte.
Photos - Mecklenburg County Arrests - 04.27.2012 - CharlotteObserver.com (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/04/28/3205141/mecklenburg-county-arrests-04272012.html - broken link)
Out of 105 arrests 64% were Black with some really eye-opening charges. The remainder were white, hispanic and other. Their charges consisted mainly of DUI, failure to pay cab fare, simple larceny and a contempt of court, etc.
I would take my chances with these 36% in any dark alley anytime.
The 64% from yesterday is what is causing our violent crime rate to increase. Stop worrying about being so politically correct and open your eyes to the truth. Yes, we do need to focus on certain groups - you know it's true.
So, how does this get fixed? First, it's simple too, stop programs that enable people to do the crap they are doing.
Second, change the way our police department works and give our officers the ability to give people a couple of good wacks without fear of repercussion when they are caught.
Third, make jail a place that nobody wants to go to. Not a place that gives them 3 squares a day, A/C, TV... only to turn them loose to go and commit more crime.
If you want to see how our legal system works - sit in on any one of our criminal courts and watch the circus acts. You will be DISGUSTED!
Don't comment until you have seen this for yourself.
I also agree that there is a disparity in convictions due to poor folks not having the money to engage top notch attorneys.
You have not sat in on a criminal court case to see our DA's and Public defenders, turning people loose through court faster than thay can get through a line at McDonald's. Money for attorneys is not an issue in our legal system. It's our system that is putting criminals back out on the street.
How many times have you seen criminals on TV with multiple arrests still commiting crime in public?
What's even the best part is once loose in society, they get entitlements
to fund their business activities all over again.
Let's face it, my comments are not making people mad, its presenting the truth that's makes people mad and because they know it.
One thing that I agree with Cleveland Mike about...much of our legal system is absolutely without logic. As an example, the huge debate over the amendment to the NC constitution...Amendment 1. Now, I am not going to take a side on THAT debacle, but, the real problem in the whole amendment is that the wording is not definitive and is ambiguous. So, an article that I read that was written by persons from various law schools are worried that if it passes, it will be open to interpretation by judges which could well have disastrous, unintended consequences. Many other of our laws & statutes are have the same kind ambiguity which helps to keep the revolving door of criminals turning. And, the emphasis is on the speedy trial. So, rather than take the time to debate the issue or even decide one, they rush the criminals through like cattle.
I also agree that we must make jail/prison something that people don't want to be in. There is tons of room at the Arctic circle or in the middle of the desert...why not create a master prison complex there and put people there who are habitual felons? Just have the most minimum of necessities...no A/C or very little heat; outhouses and cooking over an open fire. Make the prisoners work for their food; farm the land or grow it in greenhouses...etc. 12-hour days of physical labor should certainly reduce the time for fights or gang related crime to grow inside the prison. Probably would also get the word out that this is NOT a place that you want to be...and might even reduce crime on the streets, too. But, that would never happen, it would be deemed "cruel & unusual punishment"....
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
