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Old 05-11-2012, 06:13 PM
 
1,163 posts, read 1,960,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post
Eh. I have a little more than 30 years of observations and 18 years of formal education to go on, so I doubt I'll be changing my opinion on this much. I was speaking of white-on-black racism, which is the dominant form of racism in America and has been associated with social conservatism for quite a while (note the huge shift of white southerners from the Democratic party to the Republican Party in the 1960s after the national Dems supported Civil Rights).
Wow. I can't believe you are really going to stick to this.

Spend some time in the blue collar neighborhoods of Milwaukee, Chicago, or Cleveland. You'll find lots of white liberals. Some of them are racists. I've met these people. They exist.

My years of experience and education have taken me all over the country. Along the way, I've met lots of interesting people. In fact, I've met enough to know that stereotypes like this are rarely correct.

(P.S.: 18 years of formal education is a good start, keep going and you just might catch up!)

 
Old 05-11-2012, 06:22 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,270,313 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by amploud View Post
Spend some time in the blue collar neighborhoods of Milwaukee, Chicago, or Cleveland. You'll find lots of white liberals. Some of them are racists. I've met these people. They exist.
Indeed. Some of the most racist comments I have ever heard were from second-generation Irish and Italian NYC kids in the 90s. But these blue-collar folks are SOCIAL conservatives, yet ECONOMIC liberals because most of them probably have union backgrounds.

Blue-collar southerners used to be overwhelmingly Democrats and were also in favor of all types of liberal economic programs. But they were intensely socially conservative, particularly on the race issue, and broke with the Democrats on this. They didn't have the union ties to the Democratic party, so the social conservatism won out over the economic liberalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amploud View Post
My years of experience and education have taken me all over the country. Along the way, I've met lots of interesting people. In fact, I've met enough to know that stereotypes like this are rarely correct.

(P.S.: 18 years of formal education is a good start, keep going and you just might catch up!)
Eh. I've gotten as far as I need to go. A Ph.D. is a waste of time in my field unless you really want to teach.
 
Old 05-11-2012, 06:47 PM
 
1,163 posts, read 1,960,529 times
Reputation: 1106
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post
Indeed. Some of the most racist comments I have ever heard were from second-generation Irish and Italian NYC kids in the 90s. But these blue-collar folks are SOCIAL conservatives, yet ECONOMIC liberals because most of them probably have union backgrounds.

Blue-collar southerners used to be overwhelmingly Democrats and were also in favor of all types of liberal economic programs. But they were intensely socially conservative, particularly on the race issue, and broke with the Democrats on this. They didn't have the union ties to the Democratic party, so the social conservatism won out over the economic liberalism.



Eh. I've gotten as far as I need to go. A Ph.D. is a waste of time in my field unless you really want to teach.
The people I'm referring to aren't socially conservative, unless being pro-choice, having several out-of-wedlock births, and "shacking-up" are now considered socially conservative positions. But I expect they'll become so if it keeps you from having to admit you are wrong.

If we keep this up, you'll end up identifying a subset of social conservatives, and then a subset of that subset, and then another subset after that in order to keep your argument going. You'll keep going just so you don't have to admit that you're wrong.

I also sense that you're the type that needs to have the last word, so: You can have the last post on this subject. I'm moving on. I know you are wrong. That's enough for me!
 
Old 05-12-2012, 09:29 PM
 
747 posts, read 1,545,649 times
Reputation: 406
Look on the bright side. Once you take my job, you won't have time for clubbing. You'll instead be using company time on the phone trying to get your green card to get a better job.

The bouncer did you a favor.
 
Old 05-12-2012, 10:10 PM
 
123 posts, read 188,644 times
Reputation: 148
Default Racism

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenpapayas View Post
I went to Club Butter tonight and was denied entry, turns out that this was a fairly common phenomenon there as people of color are regularly denied entry. I have found a link online that speaks about the same:

Woman alleges Club Butter is racist, attorneys deny claim - WBTV 3 News, Weather, Sports, and Traffic for Charlotte, NC

There's also a facebook page regarding the same thing happening to someone else. Seems like Charlotte is a place where people are only allowed to enter certain places based on the color of their skin, quite a pathetic thing for a city that is hosting the next DNC and ranked as the fastest growing city in US right now(source:Yahoo).

Btw, 3 people behind me who were Caucasian were allowed entry immediately. I thought US moved past the pre 60's era long ago, looks like the South alone was stuck in the past.

I am brown by the way.
Greenpapayas - Since moving here I've noticed alot of what I feel is the South being stuck in a rut. I was born and raised in Pittsburgh, but lived on the West Coast for over 35 years. On the West Coast, "people of color" are more accepted and people are living in the modern day. I have never been to any club where you weren't allowed in due to the color of your skin. As long as you had money and was buying drinks, you were welcome. In Arizona, I saw alot of mixed relationships. I don't see that here in Charlotte. If I see a black man, 95% of the time, they are with a black woman. Not on the West Coast. Maybe it's because I live in the Ballantyne area. I feel alot of these people are still living in the 60's. If they are voting for Amendement One, so gays do not have equal rights, I feel most assured they are looking at you as a second class citizen. BTW, I'm white, and if I can see it, why can't anyone else. I thought this generation of Southerners would see things differently and be more open-minded. I can just imagine what they think when they see a black man and a white woman together. I'm sure I'll get alot of backlash for agreeing with you. Sometimes I will look at a black person and wonder what they are thinking of me. I hope they know not all white people are like this and alot of us transplants don't feel this way. I lived 50 miles from Mexico and our neighborhood/schools had alot of blacks/hispanics. They were just our neighbors and their was none of this 60's mentality. Racism is alive and from what I see, a good portion of it never left the South.
 
Old 05-13-2012, 06:43 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 6,990,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmen11 View Post
Greenpapayas - Since moving here I've noticed alot of what I feel is the South being stuck in a rut. I was born and raised in Pittsburgh, but lived on the West Coast for over 35 years. On the West Coast, "people of color" are more accepted and people are living in the modern day. I have never been to any club where you weren't allowed in due to the color of your skin. As long as you had money and was buying drinks, you were welcome. In Arizona, I saw alot of mixed relationships. I don't see that here in Charlotte. If I see a black man, 95% of the time, they are with a black woman. Not on the West Coast. Maybe it's because I live in the Ballantyne area. I feel alot of these people are still living in the 60's. If they are voting for Amendement One, so gays do not have equal rights, I feel most assured they are looking at you as a second class citizen. BTW, I'm white, and if I can see it, why can't anyone else. I thought this generation of Southerners would see things differently and be more open-minded. I can just imagine what they think when they see a black man and a white woman together. I'm sure I'll get alot of backlash for agreeing with you. Sometimes I will look at a black person and wonder what they are thinking of me. I hope they know not all white people are like this and alot of us transplants don't feel this way. I lived 50 miles from Mexico and our neighborhood/schools had alot of blacks/hispanics. They were just our neighbors and their was none of this 60's mentality. Racism is alive and from what I see, a good portion of it never left the South.
And you're basing this opinion from your bunker in Ballantyne? Forgive me for chuckling, but you know that Ballantyne is 80%+ transplants from the north and Midwest, right? And the other 20% are from FL and CA!!

This is the same area that re-elects Bill James over and over and over and over...

I see racism, sure. I see it from whites AND blacks. I see it from natives AND transplants. I can tell you, from the native southern perspective it is NO WHERE NEAR what it was...

And your generalizations of "southerners"... ("I can imagine what they think..."), how is that different from the prejudices you observe about white/black? Are you railing against prejudice and stereotypes of all kinds, or just the ones that give you some self-righteous power to lord order the unwashed masses? Since you never lived in the south until recently how would you know what has or has not changed?
 
Old 05-13-2012, 07:15 AM
LLN
 
Location: Upstairs closet
4,976 posts, read 8,715,931 times
Reputation: 6443
As long as people need an excuse, racism will exist.
 
Old 05-13-2012, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Weddington, NC
284 posts, read 530,215 times
Reputation: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmen11 View Post
Greenpapayas - Since moving here I've noticed alot of what I feel is the South being stuck in a rut. I was born and raised in Pittsburgh, but lived on the West Coast for over 35 years. On the West Coast, "people of color" are more accepted and people are living in the modern day. I have never been to any club where you weren't allowed in due to the color of your skin. As long as you had money and was buying drinks, you were welcome. In Arizona, I saw alot of mixed relationships. I don't see that here in Charlotte. If I see a black man, 95% of the time, they are with a black woman. Not on the West Coast. Maybe it's because I live in the Ballantyne area. I feel alot of these people are still living in the 60's. If they are voting for Amendement One, so gays do not have equal rights, I feel most assured they are looking at you as a second class citizen. BTW, I'm white, and if I can see it, why can't anyone else. I thought this generation of Southerners would see things differently and be more open-minded. I can just imagine what they think when they see a black man and a white woman together. I'm sure I'll get alot of backlash for agreeing with you. Sometimes I will look at a black person and wonder what they are thinking of me. I hope they know not all white people are like this and alot of us transplants don't feel this way. I lived 50 miles from Mexico and our neighborhood/schools had alot of blacks/hispanics. They were just our neighbors and their was none of this 60's mentality. Racism is alive and from what I see, a good portion of it never left the South.
I rarely respond to someone in a personal manner on a message board, but this time I just have to go there.

Carmen, I've also lived in many areas around the country. I've been in Charlotte for six years - Ballantyne and now Weddington, which have similar demographics. Your posts consistently result in me scratching my head, wondering how people with fundamentally similar experiences can interpret things so differently. Every time I see your name on a post, I bemusedly know I'm going to read it and wonder what parallel universe you're posting from.

I have seen your posts in the past about the way women in Ballantyne dress, and that they are "wanting to be seen", etc. I think I recall something about "wanting to be seen in their trendy workout clothes and large SUVs". It's amazing, and hypocritical, that for someone claiming to be so "open-minded" (btw, the comment about "wondering what black people think of me" had to be a joke - right?) you certainly make a plethora of assumptions about others based on the way they dress, what they drive, where they eat, etc. I can't believe that, in the universe you live in, it's fine to judge people on just about every criteria you can imagine, but even the PERCEPTION of racial issues (because as you stated, you apparently look for racial issues - lack of interracial couples, etc) makes you morally superior. That must feel nice. I'll start looking for reasons to claim the moral high ground in my own life.

And please, get beyond the "I'm sure I will be attacked for this" mentality or statement that seems to go in conjunction with just about all of your posts. When you stereotype and make blanket judgments about others while claiming the moral high ground at the same time, you are correctly called out for hypocrisy.

And calling Ballantyne "southern" is so off-base that I literally laughed. Have you been to events at Carmel Country Club? Quail Hollow? Events at Blumenthal? Dealt with the private schools in the area? Native Son is completely correct - Ballantyne doesn't even pretend to be "southern". If it's trying, it fails miserably - you do realize that most of native Charlotte thumbs their noses at Ballantyne, right? Or has that gone completely over your head? My street in Weddington has all of nine houses, three of which have interracial couples. Obviously those couples just felt so horribly out of place in Ballantyne/Western Union County that they decided to make their homes here.

Phew, glad it's off my chest. Thanks to everyone, and have a lovely evening. That is all.
 
Old 05-16-2012, 08:13 PM
 
10 posts, read 16,854 times
Reputation: 19
OP, you should have asked for a reason for you not being let in and see if they answer. Or like someone suggested, call the management. It is possible you would not get an actual answer from either of these approaches and instead get an apology or nothing at all but that would be better than surmises.

The bouncer who wouldn't let you in mostly works for the club and must follow some logic to allow/disallow people. What possible benefit would he get from driving away customers? I am not trying to take sides or going to get into whether racism exists or not and who practices it but will suggest you take a few weeks and then come back and look at this thread. Right now it seems you are angry and I would probably have thought on the same lines were I in anger. After some time I think you would want to change many of your posts in this thread. Think of all the nice things that happen everyday and go unnoticed because they are the norm.

If at all there is a community that is 99% racist and 1% not, I would still refrain from labeling the community as racist lest I hurt the 1%. I am sure you would too, only not today.
 
Old 05-17-2012, 09:26 AM
 
1,169 posts, read 1,278,866 times
Reputation: 761
Look, this situation is hardly racism. I know a few club owners and asked them about this. They all said the same thing:

Blacks in a large groups have been more likely to cause trouble for them. A good example would be what one of the owners told me. A black guy waited in line to get in for probably 45 minutes and was told he couldn't come in. He convinced the bouncer to let him in (by calling him a racist), he joined his friends, 20 minutes later got into an argument and assaulted someone. The person who was attacked then sued the club for a lack of security.

Another owner told me that his security is careful with blacks due to there being "thugs" that want to get in, claim seating areas and turn the place into a gang hangout where they distribute narcotics, etc.

Lastly, a person of a certain race may not be let in to keep a balance in the club. They never want more guys than girls, more blacks than whites, etc.

I'm not saying it was right of them to not let you in, but you really should have politely asked why.
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