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Old 05-14-2012, 04:15 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,269,878 times
Reputation: 1954

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeytonC View Post
I hope you don't believe that anything you have said in the recent thread is anywhere near "original". Apparently you have no sense of humor, or any desire to share a chuckle with anyone that is not in your little shallow world. I am neutral on the subject of gay marriage, and use these threads as a tool to help me to form an opinion. The blatant overtones of condescension and self righteousness in your posts hopefully do not represent the mindset of the majority of the people on your side of the issue.
Sorry. I don't get off on the cheap government employee bashing. I may have laughed with you a few years ago, but I know too many people who work too hard for government out of a sense of public service. These last three years they've taken far too many pay cuts, furloughs, layoffs and demonizing for it to be funny anymore.

At any rate, this shouldn't be a matter of public opinion, but a matter of civil rights.

 
Old 05-14-2012, 04:37 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,009,663 times
Reputation: 22370
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post
Ani. That is not what I am saying. I made no such blanket argument. One of the great tragedies here is the intense homophobia in the black community. Indeed, the blacks breaking with the Dems on this is one of the key reasons it passed in this state and in California.

It is an analogy. Those who disagreed with civil rights for blacks are bigots. Those who disagree with civil rights for gays are also bigots (and that includes many blacks).
I totally get what you are saying here. But I don't think you are understanding my point. Again, these are not my thoughts--I am simply explaining what I have heard other folks say. They are not homophobic. They believe homosexuality is a perversion. How can you label someone a bigot when they have read the Bible, interpreted it to say that God thinks homosexuality is a perversion, and they are devoutly standing up for what they feel is a higher moral authority--God's holy word? unless I can prove to them that they have misinterpreted scripture, they are only find me offensive and disrespectful.

I don' t interpret the Bible that way so please don't shoot the messenger, but I do respect the rights and the moral sincerity of those who think differently than I do. I certainly don't feel they should be called bigots when from their perspective, you are committing a sin if you do not advocate against homosexuality. They believe that is God's mandate to them.

I am honestly not interested in arguing with you or anyone else on this topic, Coped. Just trying to make each side see how it is not going to get us any closer to brotherhood and a celebration of human rights by labeling each other bigots, rednecks, perverts, sinners, etc.

Folks on both sides of this issue have deep feelings. I understand both sides. I want all human beings to enjoy the same civil rights but I also respect that there are people who feel this is not a civil rights issue. Caling them bigots is not going to do more than convince them of the righteousness of their convictions.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 04:46 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,269,878 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
They are not homophobic. They believe homosexuality is a perversion.How can you label someone a bigot when they have read the Bible, interpreted it to say that God thinks homosexuality is a perversion, and they are devoutly standing up for what they feel is a higher moral authority--God's holy word? unless I can prove to them that they have misinterpreted scripture, they are only find me offensive and disrespectful.

I don' t interpret the Bible that way so please don't shoot the messenger, but I do respect the rights and the moral sincerity of those who think differently than I do. I certainly don't feel they should be called bigots when from their perspective, you are committing a sin if you do not advocate against homosexuality. They believe that is God's mandate to them.
The same way we now come to recognize as bigots those preachers who used the "Curse of Ham" as justification to enslave the black race.

We don't have Sharia law here in the U.S. We don't govern by the Bible. The Bible is not a public policy document and it should not be used as such. To do so is to afford it a political legitimacy that many in this country do not accept.

I think this is why this needs to be a court decision.

I would also point to the Jews who have some very strict rules they believe are their covenant with G-d. They do not legislate this or force this on the broader community. They live their faith and leave those who don't believe alone. That is all the pro-gay side is asking for. Separation of the religious from the civil.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 04:55 PM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,940,876 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I want all human beings to enjoy the same civil rights but I also respect that there are people who feel this is not a civil rights issue. Caling them bigots is not going to do more than convince them of the righteousness of their convictions.
By definition any change to the Constitution is a matter of Civil Rights.

With this vote, the people have foolishly transferred one of their rights to the state. It's rather ironic that where once a Church could decide who could marry, now the state gets first call at it.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
7,982 posts, read 2,739,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post
Educational attainment is most certainly a function of IQ. Come on man. Listen to yourself.

Common sense, in most instances would tell you to get a degree in this day and age. Unless you had some other marketable skill.

And I would put more faith in one of them than in one who stayed at his parents house and did the same thing while working at Target.

That isn't to say that there aren't some intelligent people without bachelor's degrees.
Sorry, but sitting hungover and or stoned through four years of Poly-Sci, listening to some Uber Liberal prof spouting Marxist philosophy does not qualify as getting an education.

I hate to be the one to break this to you but not everyone who elects not to go to college does so out of a lack of gray matter, nor are they the knuckle dragging bigots the elite Left makes them out to be.

Some of them take the time to learn a "marketable skill" and end up charging "enlightened and educated" morons $90.00 an hour to fix a leaky faucet because they are so educated they don't have the common sense to figure out what righty-tighty, lefty-loosey means.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 05:11 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,009,663 times
Reputation: 22370
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post
The same way we now come to recognize as bigots those preachers who used the "Curse of Ham" as justification to enslave the black race.

We don't have Sharia law here in the U.S. We don't govern by the Bible. The Bible is not a public policy document and it should not be used as such. To do so is to afford it a political legitimacy that many in this country do not accept.

I think this is why this needs to be a court decision.

I would also point to the Jews who have some very strict rules they believe are their covenant with G-d. They do not legislate this or force this on the broader community. They live their faith and leave those who don't believe alone. That is all the pro-gay side is asking for. Separation of the religious from the civil.
And I get all that -- I know the history, too.

But here's the thing: people are slamming NC for this vote, and folks who voted for this amendment had their very sincere reasons. We are free to believe what we wish as far as religious beliefs. Folks can have very different religious beliefs and still be moral people of good character and conscience. Just b/c you or I may disagree with them, that should not incite a barrage of vituperative language against them for voting their consciences.

It was a VOTE. People exercised their legal right to vote. Perhaps you would institute some sort of means test to determine who has the right to vote, so those with less than average intelligence or certain religious beliefs cannot vote?

Yes, I was being facetious, but can't you see how you are being elitist and that by denigrating someone's religious beliefs and implying that anyone with such religious beliefs should not be allowed to vote, you are setting yourself up as more qualified to participate in governance than others?

We may not govern by the Bible, the Torah, or the Koran, but people sure as heck LIVE by those religious books.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 05:17 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,269,878 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dooleys1300 View Post
Sorry, but sitting hungover and or stoned through four years of Poly-Sci, listening to some Uber Liberal prof spouting Marxist philosophy does not qualify as getting an education.

I hate to be the one to break this to you but not everyone who elects not to go to college does so out of a lack of gray matter, nor are they the knuckle dragging bigots the elite Left makes them out to be.

Some of them take the time to learn a "marketable skill" and end up charging "enlightened and educated" morons $90.00 an hour to fix a leaky faucet because they are so educated they don't have the common sense to figure out what righty-tighty, lefty-loosey means.
You have quite a silly view of college. There are probably a handful of kids doing that, but no one I knew.

Exceptions don't prove the rule. People with degrees still make more over their lifetimes than people without, on average.

The plumbers, electricians, master mechanics, etc., are exceptions. I consider them professionals. And of course they have to go through some training to get certified.

Still, I wouldn't trust my mechanic with domestic policy decisions, just as he wouldn't trust me to fix a blown cylinder head.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 05:17 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,009,663 times
Reputation: 22370
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
By definition any change to the Constitution is a matter of Civil Rights.

With this vote, the people have foolishly transferred one of their rights to the state. It's rather ironic that where once a Church could decide who could marry, now the state gets first call at it.
good point, frewroad.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 05:23 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,009,663 times
Reputation: 22370
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post
You have quite a silly view of college. There are probably a handful of kids doing that, but no one I knew.

Exceptions don't prove the rule. People with degrees still make more over their lifetimes than people without, on average.

The plumbers, electricians, master mechanics, etc., are exceptions. I consider them professionals. And of course they have to go through some training to get certified.

Still, I wouldn't trust my mechanic with domestic policy decisions, just as he wouldn't trust me to fix a blown cylinder head.
well, that is interesting, b/c every four years, we end up with the Voice of the People, which includes your mechanic, when we vote for our President. And last time I checked, he supposedly oversees (if not creates) domestic policy. And every six years, your mechanic helps decide on our Senators, and every two years, our legislators ...seems your mechanic has as much say as the rest of us in determining domestic policy.
 
Old 05-14-2012, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
7,982 posts, read 2,739,768 times
Reputation: 4279
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post
Educated people advance our species. The more one understands about the world, the more one can empathize with those different from them. This is certainly character building. Character and intelligence often go hand in hand. Often they do not (witness the Wall Street debacle). I don't necessarily think someone without a degree can't have good character, but he or she is certainly more prone to xenophobia and superstition

There are certainly people of average intelligence with college degrees these days. But, no one "dumber than a sack of rubbers" can graduate from college.
Quite possibly the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.
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