NC Backlash / Not So Fast (Charlotte, Raleigh: crime, living in, legal)

[LAMF]

Originally Posted by coped

It was started by those who wanted to take those rights away. How do have a dialogue with people who would consider this acceptable?

It is not a right if it requires licensing and approval of the state, therefore nothing has been taken away from anyone other than the potential acquisition of a newly created legal status at some indeterminate point in the distant future. Let's not frame this as some folks taking something tangible away from other folks, as that would be a completely disingenuous argument.

[coped]

Originally Posted by LAMF

It is not a right if it requires licensing and approval of the state, therefore nothing has been taken away from anyone other than the potential acquisition of a newly created legal status at some indeterminate point in the distant future. Let's not frame this as some folks taking something tangible away from other folks, as that would be a completely disingenuous argument.

Marriage is a civil right, as defined by the Supreme Court in Loving v. Virginia (1967).

[coped]

Originally Posted by Wolf Howl

I especially loved the post calling out that unless you lived in one of the counties that voted against it you were basically uneducated. LOL

No one said that. But the correlation between having a bachelor's degree or higher and voting against this amendment is undeniable looking at the returns and the maps. More educated people were more likely to vote against the amendment than less educated people. This is a fact.

[coped]

Originally Posted by cheesecracker

There is also one more thing that NC has - more specific to the city of Charlotte - that Alabama and Arkansas do not.
A lot of Native money. Before transplants ever started coming to NC from every where, there was a powerful economic base that more than sustained the state, it made a lot of people wealthy. NC has always had very good home grown business men.

Um, Alabama has tons of native money. North Carolina businessmen were the ones pushing for more outsiders to come to the state. They needed educated people to work in knowledge industries like technology and finance, so they had to look outside the state.

Originally Posted by cheesecracker

Everybody here had jobs and as good a standard of living as any where else before everybody started coming here.

Utterly historically innacurate. The average wage in North Carolina has always been extremely low. The education system (aside from the Universities) has been close to the bottom of all states.

Are you really going to argue that the bulk of North Carolina's workforce working in the mills had a quality of life on par with folks in the northeast? There was NO mobility or educational opportunity for those people.

Originally Posted by cheesecracker

The state of NC has never needed to clamor for attention. We have always had everything we needed and wanted right here.
Our greatest asset for so long was that the rest of the world did not know it.

HAHAHAHA. You kid right? Since the 1950s, Charlotte advertised itself relentlessly in the Wall Street Journal and other business publications trying to attract businesses and people to settle here. In fact, there's an old Chamber of Commerce publication from the 1940s in which the Chamber boasts of its docile, 99 percent native-born population.

[spankys bbq]

One thing I see that annoys me is the continued assumption that stupid people were the only ones voting for A1. I have a hard time understanding this argument. Am I to take from this that most rural people are not intelligent enough to come to a decision on their own? Do the intellectually superior folks out there feel they should be the only ones with a vote? If you want to be mad about the result, perhaps be upset that your like-minded voters didn't turn out to vote. It has been trending that more people are now living in cities rather than rural areas. Between Raleigh, Cary, Charlotte, Boone, etc. there should have been more than enough people to achieve the desired result. Instead, they didn't get out to vote, OR they did get out to vote and didn't agree with the anti-A1 side. But, I bet f you keep calling the pro-A1 crowd stupid, they will surely change their stance. Being insulted always makes me want to agree with someone.

Again, I am just pointing things out from a nuetral position.

[Wolf Howl]

Originally Posted by coped

No one said that. But the correlation between having a bachelor's degree or higher and voting against this amendment is undeniable looking at the returns and the maps. More educated people were more likely to vote against the amendment than less educated people. This is a fact.

There is also another correlation between those areas that voted it down aside from education too. Let's see what Asheville and Boone have in common with Charlotte or Raleigh, I assure you it is not a larger percentage of bachelor degrees.

Additionally, Winston Salem and Greensboro both have plenty of degrees floating around, what happened there? Again, to me, it's very clear and it has less to do with the education level and more to do with who actually lives there and where they are from.

So again, it is said that if you were educated you would more likely vote against it than if you are less educated. I think if you reworded it to say, "If you are educated AND not from North Carolina, you were more likely to vote against the amendment." it would be closer to accurate but I still would not state that personally as fact.

So, again, saying that the education level, or lack thereof, drove the vote is insulting and factually inaccurate and for you to say it's a "fact" is quite comical as there are FAR more factors to consider than an exit poll somewhere (I'm at least giving you the benefit that you actually have a number to back up your "facts") asking people their education background but not other important questions to consider.

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by spankys bbq

One thing I see that annoys me is the continued assumption that stupid people were the only ones voting for A1. I have a hard time understanding this argument. Am I to take from this that most rural people are not intelligent enough to come to a decision on their own? Do the intellectually superior folks out there feel they should be the only ones with a vote? If you want to be mad about the result, perhaps be upset that your like-minded voters didn't turn out to vote. It has been trending that more people are now living in cities rather than rural areas. Between Raleigh, Cary, Charlotte, Boone, etc. there should have been more than enough people to achieve the desired result. Instead, they didn't get out to vote, OR they did get out to vote and didn't agree with the anti-A1 side. But, I bet f you keep calling the pro-A1 crowd stupid, they will surely change their stance. Being insulted always makes me want to agree with someone.

Again, I am just pointing things out from a nuetral position.

Exactly what I was trying to do

All this name calling by those unable to contain their frustration is doing nothing to further the cause.

[lovesMountains]

Originally Posted by Wolf Howl

There is also another correlation between those areas that voted it down aside from education too. Let's see what Asheville and Boone have in common with Charlotte or Raleigh, I assure you it is not a larger percentage of bachelor degrees.

Additionally, Winston Salem and Greensboro both have plenty of degrees floating around, what happened there? Again, to me, it's very clear and it has less to do with the education level and more to do with who actually lives there and where they are from.

So again, it is said that if you were educated you would more likely vote against it than if you are less educated. I think if you reworded it to say, "If you are educated AND not from North Carolina, you were more likely to vote against the amendment." it would be closer to accurate but I still would not state that personally as fact.

So, again, saying that the education level, or lack thereof, drove the vote is insulting and factually inaccurate and for you to say it's a "fact" is quite comical as there are FAR more factors to consider than an exit poll somewhere (I'm at least giving you the benefit that you actually have a number to back up your "facts") asking people their education background but not other important questions to consider.

Yep.

[coped]

Originally Posted by Wolf Howl

There is also another correlation between those areas that voted it down aside from education too. Let's see what Asheville and Boone have in common with Charlotte or Raleigh, I assure you it is not a larger percentage of bachelor degrees.

Urbanity? Culture? Religious diversity? All these factors are correlated with education

Originally Posted by Wolf Howl

Additionally, Winston Salem and Greensboro both have plenty of degrees floating around, what happened there? Again, to me, it's very clear and it has less to do with the education level and more to do with who actually lives there and where they are from.

The city of Greensboro voted for it. And the vote in Guilford county was incredibly close. The city of Wilmington voted for it. The vote was incredibly close in New Hanover County. The city of Winston-Salem voted for it, and the vote was close even in that hotbed of Baptism, Forsyth County

Forsyth - Election Results (Here is Forsyth County. You can clearly make out WInston-Salem by the blue precincts showing the against votes).

Even in Cumberland County, where the vote was 70 percent for, the precincts in the wealthier, more educated areas of Fayetteville voted against. (These are old line neighborhoods, not new transplants)

Originally Posted by Wolf Howl

So again, it is said that if you were educated you would more likely vote against it than if you are less educated. I think if you reworded it to say, "If you are educated AND not from North Carolina, you were more likely to vote against the amendment." it would be closer to accurate but I still would not state that personally as fact. .

Union County had a 60 percent growth rate 2000 to 2009, Buncombe County had a 12 percent growth rate. This is not an issue of transplant v. native. Every native I know, including myself, was against this amendment. Most of the transplants I know were against this amendment (sans one uber-Catholic lady)

Originally Posted by Wolf Howl

So, again, saying that the education level, or lack thereof, drove the vote is insulting and factually inaccurate and for you to say it's a "fact" is quite comical as there are FAR more factors to consider than an exit poll somewhere (I'm at least giving you the benefit that you actually have a number to back up your "facts") asking people their education background but not other important questions to consider.

This is not from exit poll data but from examining the makeup of the precincts. Look at the maps and drill down into the data. The Against votes carried the day in the more educated, affluent precincts. I'm sorry if you find these facts offensive, but it is true. Education and religion were the two key factors here. Educated non-Baptists and non-Catholics voted against the amendment. More educated Baptists and more educated Catholics were more likely to be split on the issue (note Myers Park Baptist's opposition and St. Peters Catholic's open defiance of the bishop).

There may be some correlation between being from North Carolina and being part of an evangelical Protestant Church. But there is also a correlation between education level/class and being a part of such a church.

[coped]

Originally Posted by lovesMountains

Yep.

Nope. Why are facts offensive?