U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-07-2012, 01:54 PM
 
3,455 posts, read 3,139,457 times
Reputation: 3411

Advertisements

[quote=bindibadji;25524773]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
The slave master played a wonderful head game on slaves by giving a few field hands power. There were always a few "massa is good to us" on every plantation.

Do you suppose that all of the black slave owners played "wonderful head games" too? There were quite a few.

This may sound harsh but even a dog will have loyalty to an owner who beats him if he also feeds and houses him.

I don't think that "harsh" would be the word. That works with all species.

These black Confederates should get the same respect as anyone else keeping in mind that the average soldier in those days didn't get honor guard burials or have elaborate ceremonies. They were normally buried in their church or family plots unless POWs in which case they normally had a unmarked headstone.
Other than pure coercion to support the confederate cause, the idea of slaves being overwhelmed with master loyalty or blind allegiance is utterly absurd. Unlike a dog, humans have the ability to rationalize and will adjust to the situation as a coping mechanism. However, given the proper opportunity or ability to disconnect from an undesirable condition, humans will seek the most expeditious route from oppression.....unlike a dog or other animal that tends to remain loyal regardless of treatment.

Again, it's historical noteworthy to mention or at least honor those that fought under these circumstances. But to insinuate that people willingly fought for a cause that diameterically opposed their ability to live in freedom (or at least not relegated to slave status) is quite farfetched....isn't that rational thinking or do you think slaves incapable of such thought?

Last edited by Big Aristotle; 08-07-2012 at 02:02 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-07-2012, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,356,060 times
Reputation: 5231
Quote:
Yep, just like it was for the French Protestants, Catholics, Jews, gays, handicapped, gypsies, serfs, Christians, Irish, Italians, Child laborers, women, Koreans, lower caste Indians, Scots, Ukranians, and many others depending on what part of history.
you have the slavery rebuttle handbook memorized...

This is the typical response when talking about slavery in america. Do you really think pointing out other instances of slavery helps your discussion?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 02:05 PM
 
6,270 posts, read 10,004,854 times
Reputation: 4724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
black confederate soldiers = slaves... not sure what to feel about this.
They were young men who were fighting for a better life for themselves and their families (the only avenue for that "better life" for many was to fight along side their oppressors); IMO they should be honored. However, the fact that some people in 2012 try to use their (black confederates) existence in some desperate attempt to show that "the south wasn't THAT bad" makes me want to throw up in my mouth. In other words, I feel the same way as you probably do...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,356,060 times
Reputation: 5231
[quote=Big Aristotle;25526301]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bindibadji View Post

Other than pure coercion to support the confederate cause, the idea of slaves being overwhelmed with master loyalty or blind allegiance is utterly absurd. Unlike a dog, humans have the ability to rationalize and will adjust to the situation as a coping mechanism. However, given the proper opportunity or ability to disconnect from an undesirable condition, humans will seek the most expeditious route from oppression.....unlike a dog or other animal that tends to remain loyal regardless of treatment.

Again, it's historical noteworthy to mention or at least honor those that fought under these circumstances. But to insinuate that people willingly fought for a cause that diameterically opposed their ability to live in freedom (or at least not relegated to slave status) is quite farfetched....isn't that rational thinking or do you think slaves incapable of such thought?

We live in a time where people scream "keep government hands off my Medicaid" so I don't think it's utterly absurd to find a small percentage of slaves who fought against their own interest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 02:14 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,273,915 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
They were young men who were fighting for a better life for themselves and their families (the only avenue for that "better life" for many was to fight along side their oppressors); IMO they should be honored. However, the fact that some people in 2012 try to use their (black confederates) existence in some desperate attempt to show that "the south wasn't THAT bad" makes me want to throw up in my mouth. In other words, I feel the same way as you probably do...
That's my feeling as well. And I believe that's exactly what the SCV is doing here. There has to be some other way to honor them without tying them to the "Lost Cause" myth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 03:07 PM
 
4,222 posts, read 6,716,080 times
Reputation: 1560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
you have the slavery rebuttle handbook memorized...

This is the typical response when talking about slavery in america. Do you really think pointing out other instances of slavery helps your discussion?
No, just a mention that this sort of thing has gone on for centuries and likely always will. By the way, the aforementioned weren't slaves. They were simply people that lived harsh lives in many cases equally or worse than slaves. In regards to responses, your resonse might be a typical from one that really doesn't contribute any meaningful input, just insult . I am talking from experience. My mother was from India and knows about descrimination and so does my Russian Jewish father that had all of his family and relatives slaughtered by the SS in Kiev and area. So maybe I didn't have the "Slavery rebuttle handbook" which you blindly elude. Also, my rebuttle was what is normally called examples.

Last edited by vindaloo; 08-07-2012 at 03:22 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 03:34 PM
 
4,222 posts, read 6,716,080 times
Reputation: 1560
[quote=urbancharlotte;25526513] makes me want to throw up in my mouth.

I am going to have a double to try to get over that image.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 03:44 PM
 
2,603 posts, read 4,273,915 times
Reputation: 1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by bindibadji View Post
No, just a mention that this sort of thing has gone on for centuries and likely always will. By the way, the aforementioned weren't slaves. They were simply people that lived harsh lives in many cases equally or worse than slaves. In regards to responses, your resonse might be a typical from one that really doesn't contribute any meaningful input, just insult . I am talking from experience. My mother was from India and knows about descrimination and so does my Russian Jewish father that had all of his family and relatives slaughtered by the SS in Kiev and area. So maybe I didn't have the "Slavery rebuttle handbook" which you blindly elude. Also, my rebuttle was what is normally called examples.
Slavery is an indelible part of the American experience. Those other conflicts were certainly noteworthy. But the subjugation of an entire race of people for 10s of generations in the United States - (oftentimes by people who had only recently been the oppressed in the situations you mention) - deserves to be confronted and told as a tragedy, without the apologetics. Just because "other people had it bad too," is not sufficient to dismiss the tragedy of slavery.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,723 posts, read 9,356,060 times
Reputation: 5231
Quote:
Originally Posted by bindibadji View Post
No, just a mention that this sort of thing has gone on for centuries and likely always will. By the way, the aforementioned weren't slaves. They were simply people that lived harsh lives in many cases equally or worse than slaves. In regards to responses, your resonse might be a typical from one that really doesn't contribute any meaningful input, just insult . I am talking from experience. My mother was from India and knows about descrimination and so does my Russian Jewish father that had all of his family and relatives slaughtered by the SS in Kiev and area. So maybe I didn't have the "Slavery rebuttle handbook" which you blindly elude. Also, my rebuttle was what is normally called examples.
Not trying to insult just wondering what these atrocities have to do with slavery in America.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2012, 09:34 PM
 
3,455 posts, read 3,139,457 times
Reputation: 3411
Quote:
Originally Posted by bindibadji View Post
No, just a mention that this sort of thing has gone on for centuries and likely always will. By the way, the aforementioned weren't slaves. They were simply people that lived harsh lives in many cases equally or worse than slaves. In regards to responses, your resonse might be a typical from one that really doesn't contribute any meaningful input, just insult . I am talking from experience. My mother was from India and knows about descrimination and so does my Russian Jewish father that had all of his family and relatives slaughtered by the SS in Kiev and area. So maybe I didn't have the "Slavery rebuttle handbook" which you blindly elude. Also, my rebuttle was what is normally called examples.
First off, you need a sound lesson on the history of slavery in america to put things in perspective. What individual experience do you offer? My parents experienced Jim Crow and racism in this country that has severely scarred their idea of racial harmony to a certain extent; trust me, their positions have transformed significantly but those scars will never totally heal. The ugly legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, random lynchings is only one generation removed for many african americans in the south...1964 wasn't that long ago. My experience: I started elementary school 1 year after school integration in our county in southeastern NC (1970)....there were tense moments and clashes at the high school level but people with higher values prevailed against racial ignorace. Needless to say, as an elementary school kid, I was somewhat oblivous to what was actually happening but do recall school days being cancelled for an incident here or there.

So, if your Russian father or relatives were being honored for fighting alongside the SS in Kiev (which some probably did) although the SS in Kiev slaughtered their own people....how would that really make you feel about those being honored? At minimum, you'd rational they did it due to circumstances, not because of conviction.

Lastly, how can you compare slave conditions to non-slavery harsh living? Again, you're diminishing or underestimating the horrors and conditions in the life of a slave.

On topic, I think it's ok to honor anybody, but let's keep things in perspective.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:34 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top