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Old 08-24-2012, 11:37 PM
 
1,169 posts, read 1,283,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagocubs View Post
Definition of TERROR: thanks to Merriam-Webster:

1
: a state of intense fear
2
a : one that inspires fear : scourge
b : a frightening aspect <the terrors of invasion>
c : a cause of anxiety : worry
d : an appalling person or thing; especially : brat
Would you consider the "IED threat" that is "very real" to be terrorism?

I would say the FBI and DHS is using this made up threat to inspire fear into locals and attendees of the DNC so that they can justify this enormous security presence and waste of our tax dollars.

Do cops really need M4's?
Do they really need woodland camo?
Tactical vests?
LRAD's?
ADS's?
Armored vehicles?

Based on how often police in this area, or any for that matter come under fire, I'd say no. They're using this as justification to further militarize police and waste tax dollars and resources that could be much better spent on other things. They're using terror. If you honestly believe there is an IED threat, shouldn't you be outside attaching scrap metal to your car for protection? Surely the "anarchists" would place the bombs before there is heavy traffic so their chances of being spotted would be lower.

Also, since you're willing to sacrifice rights for security, I'll give a scenario:

Say next week a man shoves a improvised explosive device up his ass, walks to trade and tryon at lunch hours and pushes out a massive, right-wing fart that triggers the bomb. 50 or so people are killed, causing outrage among the local residents of Charlotte. The city would never be looked at the same way again. Copy-cat threats start popping up all over the internet and on posted signs in the city. DHS declares there must be action taken so the TSA and VIPR or whatever they call the next derp-squad starts doing ass checks at every major tourist spot and office building. Lucky you, you work at Bank of America HQ near ground zero so you have to deal with the ass checks.

Would you sacrifice your personal liberty and allow DHS to check your bum? Would you allow them to x-ray your genital area to check for explosives? *Don't worry, DHS promises the TSA doesn't look at the pictures of your junk. They only somehow can see explosives without seeing everything else* It's for safety, Cubs. For safety!


If you say "no", you risk losing your high paying job at BoA and probably won't get one at any other major bank. If you say "yes", you are not subject to what I see as humiliation and destruction of society.



I know this whole scenario seems ridiculous but the TSA already puts their finger in your waistband. That's only about 6 inches from your ass. So I'd say we're not far from this becoming a reality.

Last edited by JamesGTAIV; 08-24-2012 at 11:58 PM..
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:15 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,963,906 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Jedd View Post
As you say, after applying a little common sense to the situation,.....

Additionally, the point of the Constitution was and is not to limit government power over the people. .
On the first part, I've already laid out my rationale and don't wish to restate it yet again. If you are really interested then go back and re-read it. I've already addressed every point that you bring up. Basically I think the need was way over stated and they have provided no justification for such a large build up of police.

70 protest groups? This notion that something is automatically "wrong" about protesting, a fundamental right that Americans have that many don't, I chalk up to complete brainwashing of the American people. It's a presumption of guilt instead of a presumption of innocence. Very soviet like if you ask me and the sort of thing that FUD creates.

On the second part, the intent of the US Constitution was to replace the Articles of Confederation with an "effective" government and not a strong central government. In any case it's not relevant to what I said which is the Constitution IS a limit of government power over the people. It's does this by first defining the government and the reach of it's powers, and then defining the rights of the people including protection against government overreach.
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Pixley
3,521 posts, read 2,248,078 times
Reputation: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
On the first part, I've already laid out my rationale and don't wish to restate it yet again. If you are really interested then go back and re-read it. I've already addressed every point that you bring up. Basically I think the need was way over stated and they have provided no justification for such a large build up of police.

70 protest groups? This notion that something is automatically "wrong" about protesting, a fundamental right that Americans have that many don't, I chalk up to complete brainwashing of the American people. It's a presumption of guilt instead of a presumption of innocence. Very soviet like if you ask me and the sort of thing that FUD creates.

On the second part, the intent of the US Constitution was to replace the Articles of Confederation with an "effective" government and not a strong central government. In any case it's not relevant to what I said which is the Constitution IS a limit of government power over the people. It's does this by first defining the government and the reach of it's powers, and then defining the rights of the people including protection against government overreach.
You did not address my point. What rights can you not exercise specifically? Can you freely assemble? Has that right been taken away or are you "intimidated" from doing so because there will be more police in town? If so, that's something for you to deal with. The justification for such a large build up of police, is because there will be significantly more people in town for this event. Just because you dismiss other opinions and try to state yours as fact does not make you more right.

You are assuming that others think that protesting is ďwrongĒ. What did I ask you that was soviet like? Due to the amount of people in town, with the groups vying for media attention for their particular cause, access to pubic streets and spaces has to be organized and scheduled so they al get a fair shot to demonstrate in public. Sorry if you think asking them to get permits to march and having protest zones is soviet-like so they all get a fair chance to march. Oh, wait, itís not because you canít do that in Russia. Oh, and letís not forget that the DNC has the right to hold their event unencumbered and free from interruption.

As far as the Constitution, I stand by what I posted. By the time of the Constitutional Convention, the need was for an "effective" government and a strong central government that could provide uniformity and central order to will of 13 different states, so yes it had to be strong. But since no constitutional rights are being voided here, I donít know why weíre even bringing that up
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:11 PM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,963,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Jedd View Post
You did not address my point.
I certainly did. It was covered by the please re-read what I've already posted. I've argued it ad nauseam and don't care to do it again.

They are expecting ~ 35,000 for this event. This is about a 1/3 the number that show up for a ACC game. Furthermore they will also have the Secret Service. Hence there is no justification for such a large build up of police.
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,810 posts, read 9,405,848 times
Reputation: 5280
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
I certainly did. It was covered by the please re-read what I've already posted. I've argued it ad nauseam and don't care to do it again.

They are expecting ~ 35,000 for this event. This is about a 1/3 the number that show up for a ACC game. Furthermore they will also have the Secret Service. Hence there is no justification for such a large build up of police.
W do oh keep brining up football games? Maybe BA was right... you have to be on something to compare a football game to a political convention. 20 different groups don't show up with permits to protest the ACC championship for a week. The major networks and cable news shows don't televise live for 5 days in Charlotte for ACC football.
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Old 08-26-2012, 05:06 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,963,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
W do oh keep brining up football games?
It was an answer to a question. I notice that despite not knowing why I brought it up, you did gave your opinion of crowd control of a football game vs that of a political convention. So just by your own actions, you already answered your own question. If you are saying they are not alike because there is something inherently dangerous about the people attending a political convention, vs that of football, then you fundamentally did not get the context of the discussion that led to your question in the first place.

In short, try to figure out the context and you won't need to ask why I brought something up. Of course if you were being rhetorical for the purpose of trying to discredit me as a forumer then I have no comment on this. It's of no interest to me.
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Old 08-26-2012, 05:45 AM
LLN
 
Location: Upstairs closet
4,981 posts, read 8,763,970 times
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I would love to have out of state police on the streets of New Bern. Our PoPo are grossly incompetent and to make matters worse, the new chief (Out of state, yankee) has a very clear "Hug a thug" thing going. Bring on the out of staters!
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:09 AM
 
5,905 posts, read 7,763,595 times
Reputation: 3398
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
It was an answer to a question. I notice that despite not knowing why I brought it up, you did gave your opinion of crowd control of a football game vs that of a political convention. So just by your own actions, you already answered your own question. If you are saying they are not alike because there is something inherently dangerous about the people attending a political convention, vs that of football, then you fundamentally did not get the context of the discussion that led to your question in the first place.

In short, try to figure out the context and you won't need to ask why I brought something up. Of course if you were being rhetorical for the purpose of trying to discredit me as a forumer then I have no comment on this. It's of no interest to me.
Do people protest ACC football games? Does the president and all of his staff attend ACC Football games (and stay in town for several days)?

Why don't you wait until something actually happens before complaining about people's rights being violated (I'm not saying it 100% won't, but they haven't done anything wrong yet).

Quote:
The Charlotte City Council approved an ordinance earlier this year granting police expanded powers during “extraordinary events” like the DNC. But authorities have stressed that officers won’t be focused on the content of the protesters’ speech, rather they will be trying to manage “criminal activity.”

“We’re going to allow everything to come to us,” Monroe said. “We’re not looking to be heavy-handed.”

More than 1,000 out-of-state officers, nearly 500 security cameras on deck for DNC | CharlotteObserver.com
I also don't really get why they think only 35,000 people will go (I know it's not you, it's what's been published). But they're only going to fill up BofA Stadium halfway? I'd think that every hotel in town being filled up would be more than 35,000 people.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:44 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,963,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
Do people protest ACC football games?.
What is wrong with protesting? As I said above, it is a fundamental American right that people in many other countries don't have. Remember they tried it in China and got tanks rolled over them in response.
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:12 AM
 
5,905 posts, read 7,763,595 times
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Nothing, but if there's no protestors (such as at an ACC football game), there's no risk of them getting violent. Again, not saying the protestors at the DNC will get violent, but there's always the chance.
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