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Old 08-27-2012, 11:40 AM
 
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I assume that Tampa has had the same excessive build up of the police force there.

The police weapon of choice, being used to keep the pubic safe at the RNC Convention is the ....... measuring tape.

The measuring tape is being used by the police to measure the length of the sticks that demonstrators are using to hold up their signs. Police are walking around the RNC and demanding that demonstrators submit to the measurement. Apparently if the stick exceeds a certain length, they are considered a weapon and the party will have to give it up or be arrested. No wonder the terrorists haven't hit the USA in more than 10 years. They don't need to as we are doing it to ourselves.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Pixley
3,521 posts, read 2,243,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
One of my favorite pieces of American Lit is Thoreau's Civil Disobedience. I won't get into my personal analysis of the piece, either as a period piece or as it applies to our federal/state government today. Nor will I debate the misconception that Thoreau may have been advocating anarchy.

I bring it up only to illustrate that examining the "mechanics" of decisions our government makes is valid and prudent.

Erosion of liberties is, indeed, a series of small injustices . . . and governments in and of themselves are the agents of injustice (as injustice is defined by Thoreau).

So without getting into a deep discussion . . . I would simply say that we are foolish if we do not recognize that our civil liberties have been eroded since 9/11. There are few who would not argue this in re: to The Patriot Act.

How does this apply to the ramp up of police presence in our fair city during the DNC?

I am not sure.

We all agree: we want LE to thwart any possibility of violence and we want them to effectively handle any disruptions that may occur.

Is there a hidden agenda woven into "crowd control" that has been purposely devised to keep the voices of protestors minimized - and when possible - silenced?

I am not sure. To some, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it walks like a duck - it is a duck. I would agree that there certainly could be citizen repression at work . . . but until the events have unfolded, there is no way to "prove" that this was the intent.

Unless someone in years to come reveals behind the scenes discussions in a memoir (which does happen!) . . . we will never really know except what we officially have been told . . . other than conclusions drawn after-the-fact, when examining in retrospect what occurred.
This may be the crux of the issue with frewroad's comments. He seems to be assuming that what happened elsewhere is guaranteed to happen here as the police are detemined to make it happen. On the other hand, city leaders and CMPD specifically looked at what happened in Denver to try and learn from their experience.
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:36 PM
 
3,467 posts, read 3,152,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
I would argue that in a free society that it is unrealistic to have the goal of thwarting the possibility of all violence. Real democracy puts individual choice at a high level and sometimes people make the wrong choices and people suffer. This is the cost of such a society.

It should not go without note that the entire premise behind that of political parties is to limit choice that people have when choosing leaders via democratic means.
Sort of like those choosing to board a flight that morning from Boston to LA on 9/11...real democracy and individual choice at work.

Well, if you a town of 1000 people with 500 write-in candidates does that really make sense? There has to be some way to ascertain minimal qualifications (via a competitive process), don't you think?
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:46 PM
 
3,467 posts, read 3,152,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
I assume that Tampa has had the same excessive build up of the police force there.

The police weapon of choice, being used to keep the pubic safe at the RNC Convention is the ....... measuring tape.

The measuring tape is being used by the police to measure the length of the sticks that demonstrators are using to hold up their signs. Police are walking around the RNC and demanding that demonstrators submit to the measurement. Apparently if the stick exceeds a certain length, they are considered a weapon and the party will have to give it up or be arrested. No wonder the terrorists haven't hit the USA in more than 10 years. They don't need to as we are doing it to ourselves.
Oh, they're attacking everyday and if not for extreme proactive over-the-top cyber security measures, you might not have electrical power or safe drinking water for a week or so. But I'm sure a resourceful cat like yourself is prepared for the second coming.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
Oh, they're attacking everyday and if not for extreme proactive over-the-top cyber security measures,....
Can you describe these extreme proactive over the top cyber security measures that are being used to protect the CMUD water system?
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
Can you describe these extreme proactive over the top cyber security measures that are being used to protect the CMUD water system?
Absolutely, but you already know, why bother....it's part of what I do for a living...SCADA systems, etc...

Start with this link:

Water Utilities’ SCADA Systems Proven Vulnerable To Cyber Attack | Defense Media Network


edit: There tons of new regulatory policies that are marginal privacy evasive measures being implemented to address these types of issues....chalk one up for the bad guys...

Last edited by Big Aristotle; 08-27-2012 at 02:00 PM..
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:54 PM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,957,710 times
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Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
Absolutely, but you already know, why bother....it's part of what I do for a living...SCADA systems, etc...
Ahh. This explains it all.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:10 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,179,255 times
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BIG ARI: What you brought up is exactly why I do not want to live off the grid.

I want someone out there to be taking care of this stuff. That is what I want my tax dollars underwriting.

To me, shifting responsibility onto the individual for every aspect of personal safety is regressive. That is what my ggggrandaddy had to do back in the 1700s. After 9/11, I thought about this a lot. I thought - do I want to live near nuclear reactors that could be targets for terrorists (and other such thoughts).

I came to the conclusion that there is always going to be some level of interdependency with government regulators unless I remove myself completely from society and live off the grid.

That may be nice if a person wants to grow pot or make their own liquor, but other than that . . . I don't want to play sentry 24/7. I want the sheriff to do that. :-)

I wanna know my water is not only uncontaminated, I want to know it hasn't be infiltrated by some god awful bacteria or virus dumped into the system by some extremist.

I want to know the food I buy goes thru/ at least some sort of perfunctory inspection; the prescription drugs I buy really do contain what is on the label.

I hate government regs as much as anyone, but I don't see how society can be orderly without them. Yes, over-regulation is real . . . but . . . what's the alternative.

So yes, I am very happy that my tax dollars go to a system to prevent cyber attacks.

And somewhere on some visceral level - Pollyanna-ish tho it may be - I want to believe that LE is there to protect me from the bad guys, not protect the government from me.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:15 PM
 
1,169 posts, read 1,282,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goindownsouth2011 View Post
I'm sure the extra police will only be there to act as "peacekeepers."
It's funny, I watched that movie two days after this thread started and instantly thought about the UN peacekeepers and how DHS calls the TSA and police the same thing.

I guess "peace" is the next term to be redefined by the government. Hell, it already has been. Libya anyone? Syria? Iran?

Bombing and pillaging these countries is the only way we can create a peaceful intervention. The day peace comes at the velocity of a bullet, we have a problem.

I digress

My point is the American public has no ****ing clue and they prove it on a daily basis when they say they're "proud" of our domestic fear policy and how well it protects them.
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:21 PM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,957,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post

I want someone out there to be taking care of this stuff. That is what I want my tax dollars underwriting.

To me, shifting responsibility onto the individual for every aspect of personal safety is regressive. That is what my ggggrandaddy had to do back in the 1700s.
What do you think your grandaddy would think of his great gggg grand kids who thought that it was perfectly OK for the police to be walking around with measuring tapes and demanding that law abiding citizens hand over their protest signs so they can measure the length? A society where anyone can say anything and it's believed as fact and we must take away rights because "IT" might happen.

I'm thinking he would say, "boy's lay down your weapons... it's not worth it". At least I'm pretty sure mine would.
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