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Old 08-13-2012, 09:40 AM
 
11,836 posts, read 25,485,933 times
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James have you seen any sound cannons yet?
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:14 AM
 
1,169 posts, read 1,282,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
You are being extreme... a bad apple can destroy and event but they aren't going to destroy "society" as a whole based on one or 2 events.

If we had a ramp up without the DNC in Charlotte I would be very concerned but the President of the United States and half the government are coming to Charlotte. I doubt you are really this paranoid by the obvious...
Not paranoid, just annoyed. And you know what I meant with the "society" comment. Of course security is to be expected because, as you said, half the government is attending. That doesn't mean that some of this prep isn't excessive. If I'm paranoid, the police certainly are also. Based on the money flowing into the security around this project, you would think they were preparing for an alien invasion.

@Above: Not sure if you're mocking me because of an earlier post, but no. I haven't seen any LRAD's.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,823 posts, read 3,318,953 times
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I would be annoyed at out of state police patrolling the city.

But for special events, conventions, etc. I think it's great. No problem at all.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,808 posts, read 9,396,523 times
Reputation: 5273
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGTAIV View Post
Not paranoid, just annoyed. And you know what I meant with the "society" comment. Of course security is to be expected because, as you said, half the government is attending. That doesn't mean that some of this prep isn't excessive. If I'm paranoid, the police certainly are also. Based on the money flowing into the security around this project, you would think they were preparing for an alien invasion.

@Above: Not sure if you're mocking me because of an earlier post, but no. I haven't seen any LRAD's.
umm... they are preparing for Obama and the rest of the DNC. It's a pretty big deal and given the volatile rhetoric by extremist on both sides of the media I'm not sure how you can be surprised at the police presence.

I expect the police to be "paranoid"... that's their job given the circumstances.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Union County
5,789 posts, read 8,439,439 times
Reputation: 4818
Entertaining thread... LOL

Govt "crackdowns" are not a new phenom - like lumbollo's examples it's gone on for decades and decades back to 60s easily. "Sterilization" - haha... Is that new? Certainly isn't to me and I'm not that old. The extra "ramp up" (read - creation of the budget devouring Homeland Security) and "horribly useless and costly wars" (breaking us as a country) are our gift from the previous administration and we have to live with them in the short term. Comments about them related to the current POTUS are hilarious.

LEO should be welcome from anywhere... It's amazing that folks here assume the bad things brought from extra law enforcement are to be feared more then a potential EDP crazed Colorado like shooter - if I'm maced, tear gassed, clubbed, cuffed, and thrown in jail for a day that's 1000x better then being blown up or shot by some mentally unstable armed freak... and seriously, if I'm so concerned about my safety from LEO or possible protesters - why do I need to be right THERE?
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,808 posts, read 9,396,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
Entertaining thread... LOL

Govt "crackdowns" are not a new phenom - like lumbollo's examples it's gone on for decades and decades back to 60s easily. "Sterilization" - haha... Is that new? Certainly isn't to me and I'm not that old. The extra "ramp up" (read - creation of the budget devouring Homeland Security) and "horribly useless and costly wars" (breaking us as a country) are our gift from the previous administration and we have to live with them in the short term. Comments about them related to the current POTUS are hilarious.

LEO should be welcome from anywhere... It's amazing that folks here assume the bad things brought from extra law enforcement are to be feared more then a potential EDP crazed Colorado like shooter - if I'm maced, tear gassed, clubbed, cuffed, and thrown in jail for a day that's 1000x better then being blown up or shot by some mentally unstable armed freak... and seriously, if I'm so concerned about my safety from LEO or possible protesters - why do I need to be right THERE?
America has a large slice of idiots who believe what they are fed.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:30 PM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,960,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
LEO should be welcome from anywhere... It's amazing that folks here assume the bad things brought from extra law enforcement are to be feared more then a potential EDP crazed Colorado like shooter - if I'm maced, tear gassed, clubbed, cuffed, and thrown in jail for a day that's 1000x better then being blown up or shot by some mentally unstable armed freak...
Yet for all the militarization of the police forces, there was nothing to stop the crazed killer in Colorado. 12 people dead. And if this wasn't a wake up call to the police, there was another one in Wisconsin several days later where 7 more were dead.

The facts are that equipping the police like an army does nothing to stop these things and disproves the pretense that turning the police into an military force does anything to make the people safer from these types of criminal events. It doesn't as these events prove. It's a false pretense of "safety" used to justify it. On the other hand, and the point I originally made, which you have dismissed as the crazed thinking of a wingnut, is that it does give the police the power to control the ones who do obey the law to the point of breaking their rights. This has been proven as well and I cited one of the most famous events where this occurred. These are not subject to opinion or interpretation.

It's a shame this topic can't be discussed by looking at the facts instead of tossing out insults at anyone who wishes to challenge the status quo. This is why I said earlier that critical thinking is dead and nothing like it was in the 1960s. The DnC has nothing to worry about.

----------------------------

Finally I will add that this isn't about one political party or another. IMO, there is no difference about either. I speak of the DNC because the event is here in CLT. It it had been the GOP I would do exactly the same. Don't try to turn this into something it isn't.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,808 posts, read 9,396,523 times
Reputation: 5273
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
Yet for all the militarization of the police forces, there was nothing to stop the crazed killer in Colorado. 12 people dead. And if this wasn't a wake up call to the police, there was another one in Wisconsin several days later where 7 more were dead.

The facts are that equipping the police like an army does nothing to stop these things and disproves the pretense that turning the police into an military force does anything to make the people safer from these types of criminal events. It doesn't as these events prove. It's a false pretense of "safety" used to justify it. On the other hand, and the point I originally made, which you have dismissed as the crazed thinking of a wingnut, is that it does give the police the power to control the ones who do obey the law to the point of breaking their rights. This has been proven as well and I cited one of the most famous events where this occurred. These are not subject to opinion or interpretation.

It's a shame this topic can't be discussed by looking at the facts instead of tossing out insults at anyone who wishes to challenge the status quo. This is why I said earlier that critical thinking is dead and nothing like it was in the 1960s. The DnC has nothing to worry about.

----------------------------

Finally I will add that this isn't about one political party or another. IMO, there is no difference about either. I speak of the DNC because the event is here in CLT. It it had been the GOP I would do exactly the same. Don't try to turn this into something it isn't.
The goal post are moving... we went from Charlotte to Colorado to Wisconsin. Are we talking about Charlotte and the reasons for the ramp up or police in general?

If you use random acts of violence as proof the police can't protect everyone at all times you open the door to thought police and more violations of rights to stop any and all acts of violence. It's impossible to keep 300 million people safe from lunatics...

Charlotte is ramping up because of an event that has the POTUS and half the government in town. They aren't here to stop a random attack in Union County at a Jack N the Box either... they are here for crowd control.

Lastly... the only people making it a political event are those using it as a political event. Regardless of the D or R, Romney or Obama this ramp up would happen. This isn't anything new, it's just new to Charlotte.

These are not subject to opinion or interpretation because I said so!!! j/k.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:05 PM
 
3,461 posts, read 3,155,204 times
Reputation: 3433
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
Yet for all the militarization of the police forces, there was nothing to stop the crazed killer in Colorado. 12 people dead. And if this wasn't a wake up call to the police, there was another one in Wisconsin several days later where 7 more were dead.

The facts are that equipping the police like an army does nothing to stop these things and disproves the pretense that turning the police into an military force does anything to make the people safer from these types of criminal events. It doesn't as these events prove. It's a false pretense of "safety" used to justify it. On the other hand, and the point I originally made, which you have dismissed as the crazed thinking of a wingnut, is that it does give the police the power to control the ones who do obey the law to the point of breaking their rights. This has been proven as well and I cited one of the most famous events where this occurred. These are not subject to opinion or interpretation.

It's a shame this topic can't be discussed by looking at the facts instead of tossing out insults at anyone who wishes to challenge the status quo. This is why I said earlier that critical thinking is dead and nothing like it was in the 1960s. The DnC has nothing to worry about.

----------------------------

Finally I will add that this isn't about one political party or another. IMO, there is no difference about either. I speak of the DNC because the event is here in CLT. It it had been the GOP I would do exactly the same. Don't try to turn this into something it isn't.
In that case, why have all that extra security by TSA at the airport? Even there, it's not foolproof but installing certain measures can prevent and mitigate serious incidents and situations. Similarily to 9/11, we only react to the incident or find gaps in the system during the aftermath, not truly understanding how many of these incidents have been avoided due to marginal police state measures. Sadly, it's the world we live in, I'm not sure what the proper level of police force is required to satisfy the police state critics and ensure a premium standard of security for such events as the DNC.

I don't have a problem with the additonal police and military force. Hopefully, all have had to meet a minimum level of training to address isolated incidents and briefed on chain of command.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Union County
5,789 posts, read 8,439,439 times
Reputation: 4818
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
Yet for all the militarization of the police forces, there was nothing to stop the crazed killer in Colorado. 12 people dead. And if this wasn't a wake up call to the police, there was another one in Wisconsin several days later where 7 more were dead.

The facts are that equipping the police like an army does nothing to stop these things and disproves the pretense that turning the police into an military force does anything to make the people safer from these types of criminal events. It doesn't as these events prove. It's a false pretense of "safety" used to justify it. On the other hand, and the point I originally made, which you have dismissed as the crazed thinking of a wingnut, is that it does give the police the power to control the ones who do obey the law to the point of breaking their rights. This has been proven as well and I cited one of the most famous events where this occurred. These are not subject to opinion or interpretation.

It's a shame this topic can't be discussed by looking at the facts instead of tossing out insults at anyone who wishes to challenge the status quo. This is why I said earlier that critical thinking is dead and nothing like it was in the 1960s. The DnC has nothing to worry about.

----------------------------

Finally I will add that this isn't about one political party or another. IMO, there is no difference about either. I speak of the DNC because the event is here in CLT. It it had been the GOP I would do exactly the same. Don't try to turn this into something it isn't.
It was a movie theater in CO, there was no "militarization" involved - which plays into my point... when security isn't tight, look at what can happen easily. Not to say it can't happen anyway - just that's it's so much easier.

Certain events dictate extreme security, plain and simple. We can argue the amount and the extreme nature of those security measures, but I seriously doubt you don't see the need to have more than your typical run o the mill patrols during the DNC. Granted this may give us a false sense of security, but the ramifications of Monday morning QBing how security was handled would be under incredible scrutiny if something were to "happen". We're in the age of blame game and those in charge will CYA every which way to Sunday. Your earlier examples notwithstanding... we all know the history of enforcing the "law" brutally - you can say it's not open to interpretation, but that's referring to specific people acting certain ways - similar to the "wingnut". A cop smashing someone with a baton is still a cop smashing someone... it doesn't automatically mean LEO is going to behave that way Uptown during the DNC. Unless you know something we don't, I think you have to respect preparing for the worst case scenario from a LEO perspective. We can't assume the cops will act badly anymore then we can't assume some wingnut will open fire in a crowd. Both have precedence, but aren't guaranteed.

What confuses me is that you believe there was critical thinking in a time when your previous examples occurred - how does that make sense? Because it doesn't to me. Frankly, I don't consider what you're referring to as critical thinking at all... It's just Libertarian ideals that are alive and well. Just not in enough numbers to change our politics. Which may be your point...

What's interesting is that we agree - the GOP convention here would be exactly the same. They're all the same... which s^cks for us.
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