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Old 08-13-2012, 02:17 PM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,959,051 times
Reputation: 1272

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
The goal post are moving... we went from Charlotte to Colorado to Wisconsin. Are we talking about Charlotte and the reasons for the ramp up or police in general?

These are not subject to opinion or interpretation because I said so!!! j/k.
I didn't bring it up these cities so go quote the party who brought it up if you really want to know. Oh I forgot, you already did with another irrelevant one-liner that serves no purpose except to distract from the point because you can't make a logical argument yourself.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,802 posts, read 9,391,643 times
Reputation: 5273
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
I didn't bring it up these cities so go quote the party who brought it up if you really want to know. Oh I forgot, you already did with another irrelevant one-liner that serves no purpose except to distract from the point because you can't make a logical argument yourself.
I addressed the points and made a light hearted joke. You take yourself way too seriously on here.

Instead of focusing on the "distractions" how about commenting on the thought police you seem to endorse since police can't catch every fringe shooter.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:37 PM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,959,051 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
....
What confuses me is that you believe there was critical thinking in a time when your previous examples occurred - how does that make sense? Because it doesn't to me. Frankly, I don't consider what you're referring to as critical thinking at all... It's just Libertarian ideals that are alive and well. Just not in enough numbers to change our politics. Which may be your point...

What's interesting is that we agree - the GOP convention here would be exactly the same. They're all the same... which s^cks for us.
In regards to CO and "critical thinking" you said this.
"It's amazing that folks here assume the bad things brought from extra law enforcement are to be feared more then a potential EDP crazed Colorado like shooter - if I'm maced, tear gassed, clubbed, cuffed, and thrown in jail for a day that's 1000x better then being blown up or shot by some mentally unstable armed freak... and seriously, if I'm so concerned about my safety from LEO or possible protesters"
So you have equated the shooting of the people in CO to that of people standing up to their Constitutional rights to free assembly and the right to free speech without interference from the government. What are otherwise known as "protests". I'm not buying it. It's a false argument that is often used to justify equipping police to unnecessary levels so that this very thing can occur. "Critical thinking" means you think critically about decisions made by government instead of simply accepting them without question.

The US Constitution limits the power of the government over the people. This is why I also don't buy this argument that Charlotte's "reputation" is more important than this. You said:
Certain events dictate extreme security, plain and simple.
I don't disagree, however the status quo can't use this as an excuse to suspend rights. There are only certain times when this can happen and the CMPD, the city of Charlotte, nor do political parties have this right. It the place is going to be so ripe for terrorist activities then let them "man up" and declare a suspension of rights for security. Of course this isn't going to happen because they know it not to be the case. I stand by what I said that the huge police presence is to prevent the people from protesting. It's not about security.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:46 PM
 
58 posts, read 107,235 times
Reputation: 71
Default Dnc

ok, I'll admit that I did not real ALL I pages of responses to the original post, so consider this a response to the original post.
4 years ago we lived in Mpls/St.Paul when the RNC took place. On a whim my husband and I drove to DT St. Paul where the convention was being held. Had to park over a mile away and it was a hot day. Crossing the Mississippi River bridge (on foot! it was blocked off with at least a dozen dump trucks) there were boats with soldiers and machine guns in the water. We passed at least 100 cops/national guard on the way, many on horses. The convention center was surrounded by a chain link fence with barbed wire. A couple of cable news crews had set ups.

Very high security, but we knew that if we followed the directions of security (when to cross the street etc) that we were fine. Of all the experiences in my life it was the most fascinating event we have ever attended. LOT'S of protesters, LOT'S of reporters. Many, Many cops. I won't state my political affiliation because it doesn't matter. It was quite simply so cool to see that many facets of people and opinions in one area.
I mentioned it was hot, and a small DT grocery had brisk business selling bottled water, stuck in my mind was the scene of about 20 people in line with bottles of water in hand patiently waiting to check out, and it was so cool to see republicans, democrats, Code Pink, hippies and cops all talking together and having a good time.

We want to check it out this year but probably won't due to surgery my husband just had. I encourage anyone to be spectator, you will be amazed. There were a couple of incidents (protesters throwing bottles of urine) but they were booed by all sides of the crowd.

The RNC also had thousands of cops, I'm not at all surprised the same is true for Charlotte. If you have a free afternoon check it out, as I said, it is simply fascinating.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:10 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,193,442 times
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Wow! So glad you posted this, Nylarc! I could see the scene as you described it. I agree - fascinating!
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Old 08-14-2012, 01:36 AM
 
1,169 posts, read 1,282,601 times
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Agreed, that is a very interesting story. Shows that people are, for the most part, civilized and won't be trying to go Libya on each other during the DNC. That's why I feel they went overboard on the security. I don't hate the police, I just fear an incident like G20 Pittsburgh or worse.

By the way, Nylark, the bit about everyone standing in line reminds me of this story:

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enha...40127282-9.jpg

Not sure if it's true but it still is interesting. (Off topic, I know. Bite me!)
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Old 08-14-2012, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,802 posts, read 9,391,643 times
Reputation: 5273
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGTAIV View Post
Agreed, that is a very interesting story. Shows that people are, for the most part, civilized and won't be trying to go Libya on each other during the DNC. That's why I feel they went overboard on the security. I don't hate the police, I just fear an incident like G20 Pittsburgh or worse.

By the way, Nylark, the bit about everyone standing in line reminds me of this story:

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enha...40127282-9.jpg

Not sure if it's true but it still is interesting. (Off topic, I know. Bite me!)
We had a celebration for my grandfather on The Hill in Pittsburgh during the G20. Not sure who planned it but the timing was awful. I wasn't in the area where the protest turned violent I did witness military and local police in all black riding around with sound canons and other equipment I had never seen before.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Union County
5,787 posts, read 8,437,630 times
Reputation: 4818
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
In regards to CO and "critical thinking" you said this.
"It's amazing that folks here assume the bad things brought from extra law enforcement are to be feared more then a potential EDP crazed Colorado like shooter - if I'm maced, tear gassed, clubbed, cuffed, and thrown in jail for a day that's 1000x better then being blown up or shot by some mentally unstable armed freak... and seriously, if I'm so concerned about my safety from LEO or possible protesters"
So you have equated the shooting of the people in CO to that of people standing up to their Constitutional rights to free assembly and the right to free speech without interference from the government. What are otherwise known as "protests". I'm not buying it. It's a false argument that is often used to justify equipping police to unnecessary levels so that this very thing can occur. "Critical thinking" means you think critically about decisions made by government instead of simply accepting them without question.

The US Constitution limits the power of the government over the people. This is why I also don't buy this argument that Charlotte's "reputation" is more important than this. You said:
Certain events dictate extreme security, plain and simple.
I don't disagree, however the status quo can't use this as an excuse to suspend rights. There are only certain times when this can happen and the CMPD, the city of Charlotte, nor do political parties have this right. It the place is going to be so ripe for terrorist activities then let them "man up" and declare a suspension of rights for security. Of course this isn't going to happen because they know it not to be the case. I stand by what I said that the huge police presence is to prevent the people from protesting. It's not about security.
Come on - please give me a tiny bit of credit here. "Critical thinking" does not only apply to anti-gubmint ideals. It's not mutually exclusive stuff we're discussing here.

I took an example of a bad person acting badly and taking advantage of lax security to perpetrate a horrible crime against unarmed and defenseless patrons. I chose this to illustrate the wingnut mentality at a random nondescript theater in context to a high profile event like the DNC. If you're a whacko and you want to make a statement, bigger stage is an understatement to describe the comparison. A "critical thinker" should realize that bad people (singular or in groups) could do very bad things in Charlotte during the DNC. Not preparing for a worst case scenario and having the manpower, equipment, and plans is foolish. I would think that your critical thinking would look at all sides - not just the "man is keeping me down bro"... Preparing does not equate to "accepting them without question" as you propose here. I mean for goodness sakes, it's beyond just a "political party" or "reputation" here - it's the President of the US in town for this... maybe you're forgetting that?

In the end, there will be protesting at the DNC so really no clue where you're coming from on a suspension of rights beyond possibly that the protesting won't be big enough, loud enough, or disruptive enough for your liking?
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:15 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,959,051 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyKid View Post
I took an example of a bad person acting badly and taking advantage of lax security to perpetrate a horrible crime against unarmed and defenseless patrons. ?
And I pointed out that the sort of preparations being made here won't stop that. What will do it is the Secret Service who travels with the President. This is why I contend the rest is unnecessary.

If you no clue about what I've posted in this topic, then I suppose we are done with the discussion.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,802 posts, read 9,391,643 times
Reputation: 5273
Too many fringe groups and protestors to leave it up to SS and local officers.
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