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Old 08-15-2012, 08:14 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,077,446 times
Reputation: 22750

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGTAIV View Post
I'd like to know what that element is. I doubt it's the unemployed anarchists (proven time and time again to be police provocateurs). Of course there will be idiots and we need security in place to handle that but 99.9% of the protesters will be peaceful.

Oh, yeah that little free speech part of our bill of rights was suspended under Bush during his second term. It's free speech zones where you can practice without a permit. Designated areas by the police. If you want to march, you need a permit.
So . . . marchers do have to be with a group and have a permit.

Wow, I am significantly behind-the-times on all this. "Back in the Day" . . . we had a 70s version of flash mobs - folks just passed the word around and everyone showed up at a specific location. There really wasn't any "organization" to it. At least I sure don't remember their being much organization . . .

I saw an article that referred to the anarchists, dressed all in black and who like to taunt police in hopes of getting things riled up . . . oh my.

I feel very un-informed.
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:56 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 4,934,257 times
Reputation: 1272
As it turns out, the ACLU sued the city of Denver on the grounds the police brought in for the 2008 DNC Convention violated the people's right to protest. Specifically civil rights guaranteed under the 1st and 4th Amendments to the US Constitution. The police took unconstitutional actions against the public by performing mass arrests of protesters without probable cause.

The court agreed, Denver lost the case, and the court fined the city for the civil rights violations. The taxpayers ended up paying for it of course. The ACLU is now in Charlotte and has stated they will sue Charlotte (taxpayers) if the same thing happens here.

IMO, this pretty much proves my point for the real reasons the extra police are being brought in. This convention cares little for the people's rights as it is all about control. As for the court costs, who cares? (apparently).
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:34 AM
 
1,169 posts, read 1,511,260 times
Reputation: 763
^As if we haven't already spent enough on this, right?
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:59 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,077,446 times
Reputation: 22750
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
As it turns out, the ACLU sued the city of Denver on the grounds the police brought in for the 2008 DNC Convention violated the people's right to protest. Specifically civil rights guaranteed under the 1st and 4th Amendments to the US Constitution. The police took unconstitutional actions against the public by performing mass arrests of protesters without probable cause.

The court agreed, Denver lost the case, and the court fined the city for the civil rights violations. The taxpayers ended up paying for it of course. The ACLU is now in Charlotte and has stated they will sue Charlotte (taxpayers) if the same thing happens here.

IMO, this pretty much proves my point for the real reasons the extra police are being brought in. This convention cares little for the people's rights as it is all about control. As for the court costs, who cares? (apparently).
Yeah, I had heard about that ACLU suit in the past but never really gave it that much thought. Then I read that CLT city leaders contacted the ACLU as soon as it was announced that DNC was coming here. . . and ACLU has been working with the city to lay down some ground rules. One article (I think I linked it, not sure) said ACLU is even having a workshop to clearly outline everyone's rights.

And they are having someone on-site to make sure no one's rights to free speech are violated, whatever that means (I honestly don't know what that means - what is allowable, what isn't).

I am not so swift with visualizing stuff on maps, but I was trying to figure out where the podium is for protestors and it seems off to the side but maybe I am not envisioning things right. Hard to get it straight what buildings are where.

Turns out, w/ groups having to apply for permits, city leaders must have at least some kind of idea of how many people are going to show up (or at least, how many groups if not a real headcount). Looks to me, with the screenings and all the info people have had to provide to get into the area, that there is not a lot of room for anonymity. So it may be that everyone has the right to assemble, but they don't have the right to assemble anonymously. For some reason, that bugs me, even tho I fully realize it is a security measure.

I wonder what types of ID are accepted if a person doesn't have a Driver's License. Not that it matters to me, personally. I won't be in that crowd!
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:01 AM
 
1,169 posts, read 1,511,260 times
Reputation: 763
UPDATE:

CMPD released an interactive map showing street closures-

Storytelling Side Panel

I'm curious what local access only means? Will residents have to show ID's to enter?

"Extraordinary Event

Certain large scale events or events of national or international significance which might attract a significant number of people to a certain geographic area of the city may be declared as an Extraordinary Event. An Extraordinary Event declaration will also establish the time period and boundaries or location of the Extraordinary Event. A declaration allows the City to modify its normal permitting processes for activities such as parades, and specifies certain items that may not be brought into the boundaries of the event, or may not be used or carried in a certain specified manner."


It doesn't matter if there is 20 protesters or 1 million. I guarantee this will be declared (if it hasn't been already).

Edit: Violation of the Fourth amendment. There is no suspicion or probable cause if the police declare an unconstitutional quarantine zone. It's like the lockdown in Chicago during the NATO summit this summer.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:04 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,077,446 times
Reputation: 22750
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGTAIV View Post
UPDATE:

CMPD released an interactive map showing street closures-

Storytelling Side Panel

I'm curious what local access only means? Will residents have to show ID's to enter?

"Extraordinary Event

Certain large scale events or events of national or international significance which might attract a significant number of people to a certain geographic area of the city may be declared as an Extraordinary Event. An Extraordinary Event declaration will also establish the time period and boundaries or location of the Extraordinary Event. A declaration allows the City to modify its normal permitting processes for activities such as parades, and specifies certain items that may not be brought into the boundaries of the event, or may not be used or carried in a certain specified manner."


It doesn't matter if there is 20 protesters or 1 million. I guarantee this will be declared (if it hasn't been already).
Very interesting!

I had read an article (don't know if I find it again!) that had some info about residents and how ingress and egress to residences would be handled. Also, if memory serves me right (and these days, who knows) - there was a meeting - maybe on Monday of this week? - for residents and retail folks - to describe procedures. So it appears the city is trying to let everyone know what they can and can't do.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:11 AM
 
1,169 posts, read 1,511,260 times
Reputation: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Very interesting!

I had read an article (don't know if I find it again!) that had some info about residents and how ingress and egress to residences would be handled. Also, if memory serves me right (and these days, who knows) - there was a meeting - maybe on Monday of this week? - for residents and retail folks - to describe procedures. So it appears the city is trying to let everyone know what they can and can't do.
I had heard talk about backpacks not being allowed into the city so has this "Extraordinary Event" or "Panic Mode/DEFCON 4 DOOM" been activated as soon as the DNC starts?

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:27 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,077,446 times
Reputation: 22750
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGTAIV View Post
I had heard talk about backpacks not being allowed into the city so has this "Extraordinary Event" or "Panic Mode/DEFCON 4 DOOM" been activated as soon as the DNC starts?

Love the graphic, hee hee.

Well, I can see the backpack thing for security reasons . . . didn't the city come up with that reg in re: to the Occupy Wallstreet folks? Not sure but seems that is when it was first discussed. Of course, I thought then - this is all in prep for DNC. I wonder what protestors CAN bring into the area? If a person is planning on staying all day, bringing some water and snacks, wet wipes, any meds . . .
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:33 AM
 
15,360 posts, read 12,544,787 times
Reputation: 7565
Patrolling the city or working security? There is a difference...

As far as out of state cops understanding our gun laws...

If you bring a gun to the convention you deserve to be treated harshly.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:51 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,077,446 times
Reputation: 22750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Patrolling the city or working security? There is a difference...

As far as out of state cops understanding our gun laws...

If you bring a gun to the convention you deserve to be treated harshly.
Absolutely.

I think the concern has been more in re: to LE answering calls outside the convention area. But from what I have gathered, that's not how things will be set up. Any calls for service outside the staging area for the convention would be handled by regular police units stationed in those areas. Now, maybe I read that wrong, but it does seem logical - "business as usual"
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