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Old 10-12-2012, 04:36 AM
 
3,076 posts, read 2,527,679 times
Reputation: 2736

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 28173 View Post
I am against these "smart meters" since it will end up costing most of us a lot more money.
The reason is that next step the utility will increase the rate for certain day time to force us in being economical...but many cannot do that with more and more of us working from home.
Plus someone (guess who) needs to pay for this unnecessary expense.
What's next, utility remotely turning off my air conditioning during the hot summer days when I'm home???
The fundamental problem the utility-consumer relationship is consumer distrust. It's a monoplistic industry in nature and generally people only interact with the utility company to (1) argue about bill/charges and (2) when the they lose power. Not a sound foundation for cultivating a strong rapport with the publc.

The consumer is going to pay more for energy, period. The current business model is outdated and utilities have done as least possible to properly maintain a kludgy system - not a dig at the utility company, it controlled cost to a certain degree but yesteryear's model isn't sustainable. An analogy would be delaying minor repairs to a vehicle until something major occurs, then having to pour a ton of money to fix it or buy a new car. You can't overhaul the power system grid infrastructure ovenight - it'll be a piecemeal and incremetal approach.

The smart meter isn't going to cost you a "lot" of money, if so please feel free to share.

The utility should have the technology or ability to charge for real-time use of electricity. It's capatalsim 101 and a fundamental aspect of the free market, the law of supply and demand. If you use the cell phone at certain times of day (high demand during the day), it'll cost substantially more, so many people refrain from over usage during the day. If not, the phone companies would need to expand infrastructure to accomodate capacity, ie, increase cost to consumer. However, the phone company provides a plethora of plans that allow the consumer options to select a plan based on their need. Currently, not available in the electricity market place. If you're an energy hog and flippant about energy consumption during peak times of the day, the market place or supplier should have the ability impact that segment the most.

There are pilot projects, programs and other initiatives being conducted where the utility company can control A/C, pool pumps, etc. The majority of participants have a positive experience and have seen significant savings. The consumer has the ability to override the system by manually adjusting their thermostat or settings. You can monitor and manage via remote devices (I-phone), the web, etc. Also, the smart meter and other sophisticated devices can detect defects in equipment (via voltages, currents, etc) and other issues in the distribution system which can be quickly repaired, effectively lowering cost.

I think one of the most beneficial features of the smart meter is the prepayment option. People on a strict budget (eg, a college student) can pay a fixed monthly rate, track energy usage and take necessary actions to keep cost down (unplug power supples and chargers, turn off lights, lower or raise thermostat when unoccupied, etc).....

Last edited by Big Aristotle; 10-12-2012 at 04:48 AM..
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:07 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,391,323 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post

The utility should have the technology or ability to charge for real-time use of electricity. It's capatalsim 101 and a fundamental aspect of the free market, the law of supply and demand. ...
Capitalism doesn't mean to force customers to accept a service such as demanding that I accept a monitoring power meter. And BTW, power companies are state sanctioned monopolies. There is no capitalism to that either. You flunked the 101 class.

Aside from that, the power company here had time of day load control here 20 years ago when I built my house. I chose, at that time to have it installed. It saved me a token amount of money over the 4-5 years it was active. Then the power company later abandoned it so these load modules sit on the side of my house, unused and if I want them removed, I have to pay a licensed electrician to do it.

If you really want to bring capitalism to the market, then simply end the state sanctioned monopoly. It revolutionized the telephone industry 30 years ago, it's time to do it with power. It's not going to happen however because as it is now, regulations guarantee that power companies always make a handsome profit.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:23 AM
 
1,973 posts, read 3,082,380 times
Reputation: 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post

The smart meter isn't going to cost you a "lot" of money, if so please feel free to share.
..
A simple google search will pop up with many links on consumer experience with "smart meters" - another creative cash grab incentive supported by the state (nothing to do with true capitalism).

There are numerous examples of pricing skyrocketing after the "smart meter " install.
Here is just one:

Quote:
The electric bill in January 2011 was $150.23, the usual cost of the monthly bill and typical for this small Laguna Woods home.
One year later, the bill was $514.34.
What could have possibly caused this $364 increase – a leap of 243 percent? A new state-of-the art Jacuzzi? Millions of holiday lights to rival Disneyland?
No, Pat Wiseman said. The only change to his parents’ home was a new smart meter from the electric company, Southern California Edison. It had been installed at the end of October.
Smart meters are part of the new Edison SmartConnect grid. They connect to “a secure wireless network” that SCE says gives customers greater control to manage their usage – even from a cellphone, many miles from home. Smart meters are also read remotely, so employees don’t have to trek to the house to read the meter. By the end of this year, 5 million smart meters are slated to be installed in Southern California. SCE is almost done installing them in Orange County – but there may soon be a way to opt out (at a price).
It was after his mother’s smart meter was installed that Wiseman started seeing problems. Between Nov. 10 and Dec. 13, the usage for the 1,600 square-foot home was 62.4 kilowatt hours, he said. Between Dec. 13 and Jan. 12, it was 102.1 kilowatt hours.
Wiseman argues that there’s no reason the consumption should have changed, because his mother’s habits did not. She lives alone, spends most of her time in her bed, and has one 24-hour care person with her. He lays the blame for the astounding increase squarely on the new meter.
Electric bill skyrockets after smart meter; opt-out option coming, but will cost - OC Watchdog : The Orange County Register

There are many other coalitions against them:
stopsmartmetersbc | Coalition to Stop Smart Meters
PG&E’s Offer of Analogs Comes at a High Cost | Stop Smart Meters!
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:51 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,391,323 times
Reputation: 1272
Ahh that explains it. I didn't mention that in order to make these new meters to work, they had to install new fiber optic lines all through this area on almost every street with an antenna and a powered utility cabinet bolted on the side. These antennas are placed every few hundred feet. While they were doing this through 2010-2011, they got into many conflicts with HOWs who objected to these things being installed in neighborhoods. While the easement gives them the right to lay cable, it doesn't give them the right to put up antennas. The state however doesn't believe in property rights anymore.

I should note that all that cable and collection equipment was installed by people in unmarked trucks. Turns out it was a private firm from Florida who did it.

I wondered who paid for all this new infrastructure. Sounds as if it was more misguided "stimulus". One wonders who will pay when this money is used up. .....Never mind. we already know.
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:21 PM
 
1,169 posts, read 1,135,051 times
Reputation: 761
Smart meters? No thank you.

While doing business in the UK, where smart meters are everywhere, I was able to experience the ridiculousness first hand. They're ****. I'll fight the electric company to the death before they attach one of those to my house.
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:40 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,391,323 times
Reputation: 1272
^Well good luck with that. I got the impression they were going to take your old meter regardless which means no power if they don't put a new one in. They will do this whether you are home or not and the only reason they knock on the door is to let you know they are cutting off the power for a while. They are not asking for permission.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:50 AM
 
3,076 posts, read 2,527,679 times
Reputation: 2736
Quote:
Originally Posted by 28173 View Post
A simple google search will pop up with many links on consumer experience with "smart meters" - another creative cash grab incentive supported by the state (nothing to do with true capitalism).

There are numerous examples of pricing skyrocketing after the "smart meter " install.
Here is just one:


Electric bill skyrockets after smart meter; opt-out option coming, but will cost - OC Watchdog : The Orange County Register

There are many other coalitions against them:
stopsmartmetersbc | Coalition to Stop Smart Meters
PG&E’s Offer of Analogs Comes at a High Cost | Stop Smart Meters!

There are millions of smart meters installed without any problems. With any new technology there will be a few glitches, a gang of NIMBYS and conspiracy theorist. Also, they fell to report smart meters that have lowered the bills of consumers due to more accurate readings, reduced outage times, etc.

Commerical and Industrial facilities have had smart meters for years.

When ATM machines were first being deployed, they were confronted with the similar resistance....

Lol, true capitalism?
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:56 AM
 
3,076 posts, read 2,527,679 times
Reputation: 2736
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
Ahh that explains it. I didn't mention that in order to make these new meters to work, they had to install new fiber optic lines all through this area on almost every street with an antenna and a powered utility cabinet bolted on the side. These antennas are placed every few hundred feet. While they were doing this through 2010-2011, they got into many conflicts with HOWs who objected to these things being installed in neighborhoods. While the easement gives them the right to lay cable, it doesn't give them the right to put up antennas. The state however doesn't believe in property rights anymore.

I should note that all that cable and collection equipment was installed by people in unmarked trucks. Turns out it was a private firm from Florida who did it.

I wondered who paid for all this new infrastructure. Sounds as if it was more misguided "stimulus". One wonders who will pay when this money is used up. .....Never mind. we already know.
One

simple

word

Clueless
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:00 AM
 
3,076 posts, read 2,527,679 times
Reputation: 2736
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
Capitalism doesn't mean to force customers to accept a service such as demanding that I accept a monitoring power meter. And BTW, power companies are state sanctioned monopolies. There is no capitalism to that either. You flunked the 101 class.

Aside from that, the power company here had time of day load control here 20 years ago when I built my house. I chose, at that time to have it installed. It saved me a token amount of money over the 4-5 years it was active. Then the power company later abandoned it so these load modules sit on the side of my house, unused and if I want them removed, I have to pay a licensed electrician to do it.

If you really want to bring capitalism to the market, then simply end the state sanctioned monopoly. It revolutionized the telephone industry 30 years ago, it's time to do it with power. It's not going to happen however because as it is now, regulations guarantee that power companies always make a handsome profit.
There are over 3300 utility companies....it is nothing like the old telephone company structure with Ma Bell and 7 regional operating companies....try common sense 101.

Last edited by SunnyKayak; 10-16-2012 at 05:26 AM..
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:05 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,391,323 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post

Clueless
Kinda hard to dispute what I said since it actually happened. So I guess you are left with calling me names. Guess what.... It doesn't work.
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