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Or maybe, just maybe, it's a combination of all of these issues...
It's the judge's job in a request for bankruptcy to protect the creditors who won't get paid what they are owed. This doesn't sound to me like a company which can't pay its bills if it so willingly pays out huge bonuses to the top brass.
same old tired liberal talking points. executives taking pay raises. Guess what even if the executives didn't take the raises they still would have went out of business, because they .were still paying too much for labor. Unions jack everything up. They were needed at one point in time(turn of the century, when the government had little power and coal barons treated the men like slaves) those days are gone. We have a all too powerful central government, that keeps tabs on every little thing in the private sector. No need for unions now. Make no mistake these Union morons slit their own throats. Don't worry though. The brand will be sold, and some other bakery will soon start turning out non-union Twinkies
I'll admit I havent read this whole thread, so I'm responding to the first page, if someone has already responded to this, then apologies.
How about instead of replying with "Same old tired liberal talking points", you actually do some research on the topic at hand.
The first place I would start is the resume of the current CEO. He has a history of being a corporate raider, the writing was on the wall for this company the minute he was hired. The contract negotiations are a scape goat for what's going on with this company. It's a failed business model on many fronts, but the union is not the sole reason they went under.
Seems as though some of you are in support of employees working 60 hours a week for under $5 an hour. So if that's what these employees do and at the end of the month they don't have enough money to make ends meet and need help, are you going to call them lazy bums that are looking for a hand out?
I believe there was a time and a place in American history for unions, I believe that the time for that need has passed this country. We have laws in place for worker safety, minimum pay, and number of hours worked. But I also agree that if corporate greed from the top continues with the way its heading, there may very well be a need for unions in our country again.
Businesses were created to make a profit, no one is arguing that, but at some point we've gone from earning a profit and taking care of our employees, to earning a profit and only taking care of the bottom line.
Then, the executives gave themselves 80 percent raises in 2011.
And the reason that they gave these executives these raises was to keep them from jumping ship while the company with through reorganization, and possible shutdown. Many high level executives possess skillsets that allow them to find another job fairly easily - Hostess did what they needed to do to keep them around.
And I am sure the union bosses are not losing any money because of this. Just the little guys in their membership that actually do all of the work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped
Labor took 37 percent cuts in the last bankruptcy and the next year execs give themselves 80 percent raises. That's absurd. Explain to me how this is economic equilibrium?
Simple - these individual executives are a lot more valuable to the company than someone whose skillset is limited to loading boxes and stuffing creamy filling into spongecakes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped
Just ask yourself, when is the last time you had a Twinkie?
Maybe once or twice a year - preferably battered and fried. But we do frequently buy Nature's Pride bread, also made by Hostess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niceguy17
I am NO fan of organized labor, but the business model was not sustainable in the long run. No new products in decades and a public that doesn't want the product means failure regardless of labor costs...The business failed and they scapegoated labor for a bad business model.
And add to that their crazy distribution model. Pastery products and bread products, leaving the same factory and delivering their cargo to the same destination had to be driven in separate trucks. Once there, the trucks had to be unloaded by a worker other than the driver of the truck. Four people to do the job of one. Who would come up with such a crazy and inefficient concept? Oh...that's right...the union bosses.
And if anyone buys all or part of the company, they likely will find these work rules just as stupid, and take production elsewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Ryan
This is the way I see it. These union idiots priced themselves above their skillset and the laws of supply and demand for their skills acted natually and the market left them behind.
Yep. If one's skillset is limited, so is their leverage in such situations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad
The bankruptcy judge has put the planned bankruptcy on hold and told the two sides to go into mediation. This is in part because 19 senior managers planned to pay themselves big bonuses for using the bankruptcy laws to strip the company of its unions before they sell it off and place those obligations into the taxpayers laps.
As ha been reported in many places, "The bankruptcy judge hearing the case said Monday that the parties haven't gone through the critical step of mediation...The judge noted that the bakery union went on strike after rejecting the company's latest contract offer, even though it never filed an objection to it." (http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/11/19/twinkie-hostess-brands-union-judge-orders-mediation/)
Simple - these individual executives are a lot more valuable to the company than someone whose skillset is limited to loading boxes and stuffing creamy filling into spongecakes.
Executives so valuable they destroy a 80 year old company? Somebody didn't get their money's worth then. I still haven't seen any financials presented that would indicate they are not in a position to pay their bills.
They can of course liquidate the company without going through bankruptcy but the payday to them is much much greater if they do. Instead of paying what was promised, they get to keep it instead. This is why I said in my first post, the bankruptcy and tax laws in this country are hugely out of place for a nation that says it needs an industrial policy that creates jobs, not destroys them for the benefit of just a few.
They can of course liquidate the company without going through bankruptcy but the payday to them is much much greater if they do. Instead of paying what was promised, they get to keep it instead. This is why I said in my first post, the bankruptcy and tax laws in this country are hugely out of place for a nation that says it needs an industrial policy that creates jobs, not destroys them for the benefit of just a few.
Are you saying they could have paid their entire debt by liquidating without BK? That must be one stupid BK judge.
I don't think that a question about liquidation of a company as big as hostess is a simple question.
Your statement about their ability to liquidate without bankruptcy was a simple statement and me asking for clarification on that is a simple question. To not answer is either to frustrate the questioner or to admit you can't back up your claim.
Your statement about their ability to liquidate without bankruptcy was a simple statement and me asking for clarification on that is a simple question. To not answer is either to frustrate the questioner or to admit you can't back up your claim.
A company can always liquidate without going bankrupt. This is a fact. I don't see what there is here to prove. If you really wish to have a conversation, then one-liners about the judge being stupid and asking me questions about the company's confidential records, isn't going to get you there.
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