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Do we really need this project as part of budget? This cip is going to result in higher prop taxes...
I did a bit of research and all I find is the 1.5miles stretch would not add any value and the break even for this investment is roughly 12 to 13 years...(if we are lucky)
Do we really need this project as part of budget? This cip is going to result in higher prop taxes...
I personally prefer light rail or heavy rail over a slow streetcar. However, property taxes will go up $60 per year on a $200k house without the streetcar; expect an increase of $72 per year on that same house with the streetcar. In other words (like most anti-tax agendas) the fuss has more to do with the idea of more taxation for "choo-choos" than anything else.
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Originally Posted by ADA_NC
I did a bit of research and all I find is the 1.5miles stretch would not add any value and the break even for this investment is roughly 12 to 13 years...(if we are lucky)
The 1.5 mile stretch from TWC arena to Presby is already funded by a federal grant of $25 million (the city is on the hook for $12 million bringing that total to $37 million). This is a grant that Charlotte has already gotten for its streetcar effort. This is NOT what the mayor is asking for. He is wanting an additional $100 million-plus to extend that already-funded 1.5 mile line out to JCSU. The plan is to eventually bring streetcar service from Eastland Mall to the Rosa Parks area of Beatties Ford Road.
The bigger picture...
Though I would rather see light rail and/or heavy rail throughout the metro, there are quite a few things to consider with streetcars. First of all, they are planning streetcars for Charlotte's busiest bus routes (the #9 Central Ave, the #7 Beatties Ford Road, and the Gold Rush Western route). These are routes with an average combined weekday headway of one bus every 8-10 minutes during peak times. That's alot of diesel fuel being used; especially on routes that's typically stop and go. In the long run, an all electric streetcar would probably pay for itself (vs the costs of diesel) within 30 years or so.
As for the design of the route, I'd like to see stop lights timed with a streetcar that runs in the median. That way, the streetcar will only stop to let people off or pick people up. To my knowledge, our streetcar will be stuck in traffic just like a bus (which is why I personally don't like it). Trains are more expensive in general; therefore they should be built with faster speeds and traffic by-pass measures in mind. If the train isn't moving people faster than a car or bus would, then it is a waste IMO. Charlotte doesn't have the extreme high density of an European city (the only places in the world where streetcars actually make sense). Then again, the argument is how do we get that density without streetcar corridors? The current lynx blue line is a perfect example of how high density development tends to follow the rail, so the "build it and they will come" argument has some merit.
It could be a good plan, or it could be the city's biggest flop; I honestly don't know. What I do know is that this city currently has issues with higher taxes on anything (and I mean ANYTHING). If our current leaders want to be re-elected, it's in their best interests to just throw this streetcar idea on the shelf for now and work on the LYNX Blue Line extension (the rail project that this community actually supports). As my mother used to say "I already agree with one of your toy requests; don't get greedy and make me angry by asking for too much". Mayor Foxx should know not to question big mama (the tax payers) after she's spoken.
The reason the street car project was dropped by the MTC & CATS from the 2030 plan is simply because the Federal Government won't fund the project. The $25M mentioned above was part of pork spending. The Federal Transportation Board doe not consider street cars to be cost effective and thus it's almost impossible to get a FFGA for them. As a result the NCDOT won't fund it either and the transit sales tax won't be used for it. The Mayor and the Charlotte city council is on it's own with this one.
The Mayor and certain of his allies have made political promises to the West Side and running the street car line to JCSU is apparently one of them. Let's keep in mind that because there is no coherent plan for building this thing, they won't be using the designed modern street cars for this project. Instead they plan to use 3 reproduction historic trolley cars which were purchased years ago and which sit unused in the CATS parking lot. Technically the city should pay the MTC for these things, but that will never happen.
So what they are planning to build is what essentially amounts to a glorified bus system except they will be using transit cars that are not suited to the purpose (historic repr trolleys) and which will disrupt traffic between Presbytarian and JCSU. All of this for $110M and even with that, they have no plan to fund the operating cost. It's like the Eastland Mall debacle. They bought it under promises made. Those promises had nothing behind them, now they don't know what to do with it.
This is a Mayor and city council that is out of control with spending and if it wasn't for a few council people elected from some of the areas that never see any benefit to all this spending, you would already see your taxes being increased by 8% to 10% more to pay for all this stuff.
Lets be real. This project doesn't serve a cross-section of the city. It goes from CPCC to JCS. A huge portion of W.Trade Street is unsafe for pedestrians after dark especially non-blacks. Why does the city have to spend all so much of my tax money on communities which I can't even safely visit. Use this money for light rail. That will serve the whole commnuity and not just those that Foxx depends upon for votes. It would be a complete waste of money. Besides, there numerous buses that transverse that area and are even faster than a trolley. Get real!
A Replica Trolley will not suitably serve 1.5 miles?
No. They do not have low floor access and I might be wrong but also have access issues for the handicapped. The current buses or modern street cars are what's suitable for this purpose.
If they are trying to create a tourist attraction then these cars suffice, but this means they will still have to run city buses on those routes.
Lets be real. This project doesn't serve a cross-section of the city. It goes from CPCC to JCS. A huge portion of W.Trade Street is unsafe for pedestrians after dark especially non-blacks. Why does the city have to spend all so much of my tax money on communities which I can't even safely visit. Use this money for light rail. That will serve the whole commnuity and not just those that Foxx depends upon for votes. It would be a complete waste of money. Besides, there numerous buses that transverse that area and are even faster than a trolley. Get real!
What do you mean by this? So, the city shouldn't invest in the "hood" although the large majority of people living in these neighborhoods are law abiding tax paying citizens? So, continue to grease the pockets of the good ole boys with projects that benefit the "safe" part of town.
You can safely travel anywhere in Charlotte, being afraid of black people is a personal problem...hell, if they scare you in Northlake Mall, surely seeing one or two on a sidewalk must be traumatizing...give me a break.
God forbid they do anything to spruce up where "those" people live.
Lets be real. This project doesn't serve a cross-section of the city. It goes from CPCC to JCS. A huge portion of W.Trade Street is unsafe for pedestrians after dark especially non-blacks. Why does the city have to spend all so much of my tax money on communities which I can't even safely visit. Use this money for light rail. That will serve the whole commnuity and not just those that Foxx depends upon for votes. It would be a complete waste of money. Besides, there numerous buses that transverse that area and are even faster than a trolley. Get real!
Hate to be the one to tell you, but if an area isn't safe for non-blacks then it probably isn't safe for blacks either. There is plenty of black on black crime.
Personally I don't see why there is such a pressing issue to build a transit line using tourist carriages that has no ongoing funding and which the FTA, CATS, the MTC and the NCDOT have all rejected as not being cost effective or needed.
Unless they supporters of this line can demonstrate that it will work in the context of a comprehensive transit plan coordinated with CATS, then IMO, I think it's a waste and example of a government that should be voted out. This isn't a black vs white issue as some have tried to paint it. It's a matter of spending $120M in a city that already has the highest tax rate in the state.
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