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Old 01-18-2013, 07:31 AM
 
5,869 posts, read 7,701,590 times
Reputation: 3366

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Stadium improvements at taxpayer expense sucks.

Did that clarify? lol

If I wrote what I truly think about this city's leadership, the page would read like ***** is a *** and their level of expertise, priorities, and fiscal responsibility is akin to *** * ***** ****.

And that pompous *** Richardson can take his strong-arm tactics as well as his team and go straight to ****.
As a sports fan I do agree that stadium improvements at taxpayer expense sucks. But unfortunately this is not unique to Charlotte.

For example, the taxpayers of Kansas City contributed $250M to renovations to Arrowhead Stadium in 2007. Their owners did pay $125M, and I'm not sure if it said anywhere how much Richardson would spend, but I have to assume he is contributing because $125M is actually probably on the low side when talking about stadium improvements.

Hunts give more for Arrowhead renovations | CJOnline.com

 
Old 01-18-2013, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
3,744 posts, read 3,263,751 times
Reputation: 2645
Read the CBJ this morning. I think the Panthers and the state are going to contribute 62 million each with the state funds - I believe - not being used towards luxury renovations or something but renovations hat are necessary and make impacts on the community AKA "we just won on no taxes and Charlotte gets no special treatment so this is now a road project"

PS you guys should be mad at city council/state government. They're raising taxes higher than needed which will help fund

A) Bojangles Colesium area into an Amatuer sports complex
B) a 1,000 room hotel
Or C) Streetcar

Cut the Bojangles sports village from the CIP and ram streetcar into it. The panthers might be the reason we pass this CIP now.

Don get me wrong, I'm glad there was an opportunity to not only renovate the place so we can maybe host the Super Bowl but now there is extra cash to do whatever we need with it. I'm just saying for the people who are In a rage; you should be mad at government both republican (state) and democrat (city)
 
Old 01-18-2013, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Ayrsley
4,714 posts, read 8,457,827 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlottean View Post
They have never asked for a dime. We need the upgrades. Many teams would be tearing down half of the stadium, ours was designed well from the beginning. The upgrades they are planning are things like escalators, etc..

The city should support our team and the needs of it.
The Panthers are not MY team. Heck - I don't even really follow football at all. If they want to improve their stadium - add the tax to the tickets. Or up the ticket prices. Let the fans who want to have the stadium improved pay for it themselves. Why should the rest of us have to be forced to contribute to this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
I think it's worth it when you add up how many people work at the stadium, the revenue generated from visiting fans at hotels and ad up the food and alcohol sales in the Carolina's on game day.
If you think its worth it - you pay for it. Or find a way so that the people who support this can raise the money themselves without forcing those of us who have zero interest in the Panthers or the Stadium to contribute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
I think it would be wise to use the venue more often if needed for large concerts but how many 50K concerts come to town?
A few years ago I was chatting to someone who worked at 106 The End about this. Apparently some damage was caused to the stadium (or the field maybe, I don't recall exactly) during a concert there several years ago and the owners decided they did not want to allow concerts to be held there anymore as a result.
 
Old 01-20-2013, 09:20 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,016,830 times
Reputation: 22370
I guess this is socialized sports, lol. The taxpayers underwrite healthcare, banking, auto industry and now sports complexes.

But that isn't real socialism, cause these are not government owned institutions.

Is it nationalism? Is it fascism?

I can't figure out why the citizens of this country --and in this case, our fair city--don't have a problem with taxpayers underwriting huge corporate industries whose captains make a bizillion dollars in profits, and the taxpayer gets nada in return, except the right to pay for their healthcare, their cars, their bank fees and now, a ticket to a sports event.

I am totally baffled.

What the hell are people thinking?

I am now gonna be taxed so a billionaire can get upgrades on his property, so his millionaire ballplayers can play a game that costs me a premium price to attend --if I even cared to attend. Every person in this city will be affected by that tax--and it benefits whom? A guy who could pay cash for a lear jet. Overpaid athletes whose biggest accomplishment in life is tackling someone on a field-- and driving around town in a Bentley?

What is Richardson going to do with a stadium sitting here empty should he take his ballteam and go play in another neighbood? I can't believe anyone is even entertaining the thought of public funds to underwrite improvements on a building owned by a billionaire. It is beyond comprehension.

And the talk about ROI! That is laughable. That is not OUR stadium. Why the hell would we invest one penny on it? How much does it already cost us to have that stadium here? How much do we spend on police presence? and the land it sits on? how much value did we hand over for ownership in NOTHING?

The world has gone mad. At least when the government underwrote Stalin, the people knew they were owners of the ventures the state invested in. Or equal non-owners, lolololol

Half this country is living on some type of entitlement program. This city's unemployment continues to loom over our economic "recovery."

And we are talking about another tax so some hotshot sports team owner will bless us by keeping his team here. Like that is gonna help this city's budget so we can repair potholes and pay for teachers and police and firefighters--essential services.

I am living in some bizarre altered universe that I no longer recognize, where our leaders will tax us to pay for a robber baron's property -- but not for housing for the the homeless.

Last edited by brokensky; 01-20-2013 at 09:32 AM..
 
Old 01-20-2013, 09:51 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 6,989,864 times
Reputation: 4402
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I guess this is socialized sports, lol. The taxpayers underwrite healthcare, banking, auto industry and now sports complexes.

But that isn't real socialism, cause these are not government owned institutions.

Is it nationalism? Is it fascism?

I can't figure out why the citizens of this country --and in this case, our fair city--don't have a problem with taxpayers underwriting huge corporate industries whose captains make a bizillion dollars in profits, and the taxpayer gets nada in return, except the right to pay for their healthcare, their cars, their bank fees and now, a ticket to a sports event.

Just to play devil's advocate, I'd say the taxpayers get returns. Having an NFL team brings business to Charlotte and makes the city more attractive for relocation/formation of new businesses. I don't know numbers, but I'm sure that the NFL presence increases the tax base considerably.

I am totally baffled.

What the hell are people thinking?

I am now gonna be taxed so a billionaire can get upgrades on his property, so his millionaire ballplayers can play a game that costs me a premium price to attend --if I even cared to attend. Every person in this city will be affected by that tax--and it benefits whom? A guy who could pay cash for a lear jet. Overpaid athletes whose biggest accomplishment in life is tackling someone on a field-- and driving around town in a Bentley?

yikes. I think your viewpoint is rather myopic. The entire state benefits from having the NFL. Yes, JR benefits, but so does Meck. Co., City of Charlotte, State of NC and - most importantly... the citizens.

What is Richardson going to do with a stadium sitting here empty should he take his ballteam and go play in another neighbood? I can't believe anyone is even entertaining the thought of public funds to underwrite improvements on a building owned by a billionaire. It is beyond comprehension.

Have there been relocation threats? I haven't heard any, I've heard that the Panthers are very unlikely to relocate

And the talk about ROI! That is laughable. That is not OUR stadium. Why the hell would we invest one penny on it? How much does it already cost us to have that stadium here? How much do we spend on police presence? and the land it sits on? how much value did we hand over for ownership in NOTHING?

I'll bet there are hundreds of businesses locally that could tell you how good the NFL is for their bottom line.

The world has gone mad. At least when the government underwrote Stalin, the people knew they were owners of the ventures the state invested in. Or equal non-owners, lolololol

Stalin? I love your color ani, but I gotta be honest... when someone dredges up images of Stalin or Hitler to make a point I know they're stretching.

Half this country is living on some type of entitlement program. This city's unemployment continues to loom over our economic "recovery."

And we are talking about another tax so some hotshot sports team owner will bless us by keeping his team here. Like that is gonna help this city's budget so we can repair potholes and pay for teachers and police and firefighters--essential services.

I am living in some bizarre altered universe that I no longer recognize, where our leaders will tax us to pay for a robber baron's property -- but not for housing for the the homeless.

Do you have any idea how much money the City and County spend to help the less fortunate? Let's just say it's considerably more than "nothing" and a helluva lot more than the Panthers are asking for. You'd have to compare them on a logarithmic scale to see them on the same page, lol.
.
 
Old 01-20-2013, 10:19 AM
 
8,402 posts, read 20,276,166 times
Reputation: 6774
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I guess this is socialized sports, lol. The taxpayers underwrite healthcare, banking, auto industry and now sports complexes.

But that isn't real socialism, cause these are not government owned institutions.

Is it nationalism? Is it fascism?

I can't figure out why the citizens of this country --and in this case, our fair city--don't have a problem with taxpayers underwriting huge corporate industries whose captains make a bizillion dollars in profits, and the taxpayer gets nada in return, except the right to pay for their healthcare, their cars, their bank fees and now, a ticket to a sports event.

I am totally baffled.

What the hell are people thinking?

I am now gonna be taxed so a billionaire can get upgrades on his property, so his millionaire ballplayers can play a game that costs me a premium price to attend --if I even cared to attend. Every person in this city will be affected by that tax--and it benefits whom? A guy who could pay cash for a lear jet. Overpaid athletes whose biggest accomplishment in life is tackling someone on a field-- and driving around town in a Bentley?

What is Richardson going to do with a stadium sitting here empty should he take his ballteam and go play in another neighbood? I can't believe anyone is even entertaining the thought of public funds to underwrite improvements on a building owned by a billionaire. It is beyond comprehension.

And the talk about ROI! That is laughable. That is not OUR stadium. Why the hell would we invest one penny on it? How much does it already cost us to have that stadium here? How much do we spend on police presence? and the land it sits on? how much value did we hand over for ownership in NOTHING?

The world has gone mad. At least when the government underwrote Stalin, the people knew they were owners of the ventures the state invested in. Or equal non-owners, lolololol

Half this country is living on some type of entitlement program. This city's unemployment continues to loom over our economic "recovery."

And we are talking about another tax so some hotshot sports team owner will bless us by keeping his team here. Like that is gonna help this city's budget so we can repair potholes and pay for teachers and police and firefighters--essential services.

I am living in some bizarre altered universe that I no longer recognize, where our leaders will tax us to pay for a robber baron's property -- but not for housing for the the homeless.
Excellent summation of all my thoughts.

I read somewhere, maybe in this thread, that Richardson didn't want any events causing damage to his field, which is why very little happens at the stadium. Well, if a building worth what the stadium is, and costing what it must to simply exist, can sit idle 90% of the time, its owner doesn't really need any more outside funding to improve it.
 
Old 01-20-2013, 10:31 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 6,989,864 times
Reputation: 4402
having an NFL team in your city and being shocked and surprised when municipal funds are used for renovations is the equivalent of being surprised when you have to buy your girlfriend a present for Valentine's Day.

This is part of being an NFL city. We knew this from the beginning.
 
Old 01-20-2013, 10:42 AM
 
8,402 posts, read 20,276,166 times
Reputation: 6774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Native_Son View Post
having an NFL team in your city and being shocked and surprised when municipal funds are used for renovations is the equivalent of being surprised when you have to buy your girlfriend a present for Valentine's Day.

This is part of being an NFL city. We knew this from the beginning.
There are many things that the masses simply accept that some of us do not.

Does anyone know exactly how the team being here benefits the average Joe? I like the team and don't want them to leave. But has their benefit been quantified?
 
Old 01-20-2013, 12:44 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 2,452,785 times
Reputation: 1051
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaxnc View Post
Does anyone know exactly how the team being here benefits the average Joe? I like the team and don't want them to leave. But has their benefit been quantified?
It would be pretty subjective - especially when some benefits are quantifiable, while others are not.
Personally, you could measure my enjoyment by way of fluid ounces.
 
Old 01-20-2013, 01:34 PM
 
8,402 posts, read 20,276,166 times
Reputation: 6774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megax View Post
It would be pretty subjective - especially when some benefits are quantifiable, while others are not.
Personally, you could measure my enjoyment by way of fluid ounces.
OK, fine. If beer is your currency...do the Panthers buy you beer? Does their presence fill your fridge with beer? If the Panthers being here mean free beer, then that is a quantifiable benefit.
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