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Old 02-06-2013, 02:41 PM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,940,876 times
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In the 1990s Charlotte and Raleigh started rail projects. Raleigh's system failed after 10 years of trying and a $100M spending down the drain. In comparison Charlotte succeeded despite the fact that it started after Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill. Both areas have equivalent resources and similar population, so that wasn't the issue.

The reason that it worked in Charlotte is because the local politicians at the time put together a coalition that involved the city and all the towns in Mecklenburg, the county government, and the state government via the NCDOT. They formed a binding agreement and agreed that all would adhere to this agreement and the end result was a regional transit commission that managed to get two light rail projects funded. This success can't be denied nor can the reasons behind it be denied. It's history.

Charlotte/Mecklenburg got these lines going because of this regional cooperation and in a time when the Federal government turned pretty hostile towards rail transit. (Bush years) It was quite remarkable.

Now we have a Mayor who has decided to break this agreement and take Charlotte off on it's own tangent with a streetcar project that has had no due diligence. Furthermore it's being spun as a racial issue, Whites vs Blacks, East/West vs North South, Urban vs Surburban, you name it. This sort of political pandering and resulting battles will cause Charlotte's future transit plans to unravel and we will end up like the vast number of cities which have failed at rail transit. It sounds like a bunch of spoiled children.

When people turn on each other like they are now, they forget there are 200 cities out there who are ready to jump in and have the very limited federal rail transit money moved to them instead of here.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:52 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,004,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Ani, a streetcar/trolley would give a lift to an area, but not the same as light rail. Also, light rail is supported by the feds, Streetcars are not. This is very important as the systems age. Do it right in the 1st place.
And that is the crux of this issue.

Federal funding.

I agree with you, especially looking at things from an operational perspective, and over time.

I am a lot more interested in light rail than a streetcar, but I also recognize that things take time and this country is not only in debt, our state is getting ready to face huge shortfalls b/c of changes to medicaid in less than 1 year. And that is only one thing impacting the state budget (although it is a very big shortfall).

We have to be reasonable about what is top priority in this city -- and the biggest thing is -- we have to be reasonable about funding, what is available, and where it is going to come from.

Pie in the Sky will never be Pie on the Plate if decisions aren't based on the cold hard reality of budgets and tax revenue.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:58 PM
 
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The state is getting ready to make severe cuts to unemployment benefits because it has no money to pay for them. Things such as this makes it very difficult to maintain a hundreds of millions of dollars for a train in Charlotte in the state budget. If Foxx persists, there will be calls, and not only from McCrory, to pull the funding.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:51 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,856 posts, read 27,128,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
And that is the crux of this issue.

Federal funding.

I agree with you, especially looking at things from an operational perspective, and over time.

I am a lot more interested in light rail than a streetcar, but I also recognize that things take time and this country is not only in debt, our state is getting ready to face huge shortfalls b/c of changes to medicaid in less than 1 year. And that is only one thing impacting the state budget (although it is a very big shortfall).

We have to be reasonable about what is top priority in this city -- and the biggest thing is -- we have to be reasonable about funding, what is available, and where it is going to come from.

Pie in the Sky will never be Pie on the Plate if decisions aren't based on the cold hard reality of budgets and tax revenue.
That's it, Ani. I have lived in a metro with multi-modal transit. I am not against trolleys in general, but in this case I am. It's not worth it. I am also aware of how important it is to be able to go to the feds as the system ages. I could cite an example but won't unless GCharlotte tells me to. It cuts to the chase. I understand why the people in east & west Charlotte are upset. They are being told to wait for a lesser mode of public transit. Their attitude would change if they had to wait for the same thing. That is Foxx's responsibility, to have the study re-examine this. The 2030 plan has been amended to allow a re-examination. That's why he needs to shut up & take the money, say thank you & then have a re-examination. He needs to drop the trolley like a hot potato, for now.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:36 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,004,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
That's it, Ani. I have lived in a metro with multi-modal transit. I am not against trolleys in general, but in this case I am. It's not worth it. I am also aware of how important it is to be able to go to the feds as the system ages. I could cite an example but won't unless GCharlotte tells me to. It cuts to the chase. I understand why the people in east & west Charlotte are upset. They are being told to wait for a lesser mode of public transit. Their attitude would change if they had to wait for the same thing. That is Foxx's responsibility, to have the study re-examine this. The 2030 plan has been amended to allow a re-examination. That's why he needs to shut up & take the money, say thank you & then have a re-examination. He needs to drop the trolley like a hot potato, for now.
Yep.

And he needs to quit politicizing it by bringing in all the racial stuff. And stop with the red herring tactic of scaring people w/ the spector of a tax hike for private property (stadium). Funding for the streetcar has nada to do w/ that audacious request for repairs to the stadium.

I am starting to see why folks in east and west Charlotte are upset, as well. But what I don't see is why they aren't calling Foxx out for trying to play them.

Yes, he needs to drop it like a hot potato.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:46 PM
 
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We cant forget that lots of people here (many not natives) want the big city feel of having rail transit.....Considering I read where many of the light rail cars we have now smell like stall urine I would say we are starting to get the big city smell any way.Charlotte needs to move forward like the big cities lol
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:47 PM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,940,876 times
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Let's keep in mind there are two other lines, the Red Line & Silver Line that are also on hold due to funding issues. I take note that Foxx is absolutely silent on these lines. Reason? These lines go to areas of people where people are not likely to vote for him.

It's race pandering and nothing else.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:47 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,004,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crestliner View Post
We cant forget that lots of people here (many not natives) want the big city feel of having rail transit.....Considering I read where many of the light rail cars we have now smell like stall urine I would say we are starting to get the big city smell any way.Charlotte needs to move forward like the big cities lol
Oh. Is that what "progressive" means . . . ?
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Charlotte NC
11,717 posts, read 9,341,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Whatever happened to just walking? lol

Makes you wonder how folks in Manhattan survive.

Yes, that is what I figured . . . they are sexier and it gives things a "progressive vibe" whatever the heck that really means. Who cares about such surface things as a "progressive vibe." Our state motto is "to be rather than to seem." Seems to me a lot of folks think you just spread some glitter on dirt and you got instant glamour, when all you have is shiny dirt.

This town is being run by people with the mentality of high school dropouts who live in subsidized housing and then think they are ALL THAT AND MORE cause they got a credit card and charged a flat screen TV and a new pair of Nikes.

I am so curious why Portland has been mentioned on this thread several times. Their city is nothing like ours. Neither is their government. The state of Oregon is one big contrast to NC, on every level. You might as well compare NC to Ontario.

People in Manhattan survive because there are 30 subway lines and a million yellow cabs.



People mention Portland because they are known for their rail transit and its a similar size/scale.. but why ask when you just mentioned Manhattan which we definitely have nothing in common with? Charlotte is still growing and we cant extend all the roads, look how long its taking to get independence widened and 485 finished. Street cars and light rail make sense long term.

You may not like the impression rail gives because it attracts people to the city but this is what most growing cities do.

Ontario, glitter on dirt and flat screens and nikes.... interesting.

Last edited by Feltdesigner; 02-06-2013 at 05:34 PM..
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:08 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,004,073 times
Reputation: 22370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
People in Manhattan survive because there are 30 subway lines and a million yellow cabs.



People mention Portland because they are known for their rail transit and its a similar size/scale.. but why ask when you just mentioned Manhattan which we definitely have nothing in common with? Charlotte is still growing and we cant extend all the roads, look how long its taking to get independence widened and 485 finished. Street cars and light rail make sense long term.

You may not like the impression rail gives because it attracts people to the city but this is what most growing cities do.

Ontario, glitter on dirt and flat screens and nikes.... interesting.
I like Portland just fine! I don't like the weather/climate so I wouldn't want to live there but if I had to move there, I think it would be a decent place to live.

I have two clients in Oregon and so have to deal with that state's regs (mental healthcare providers). The state budget is running in the red and although they have great policies/programs, they don't have the money to fund them. So much for their progressive agenda. It's all great til you can't pay for it.

And yes, some folks think they can sprinkle magic dust and people will be so dazzled by the glow, we won't notice the dysfunction under the layer of sparkle.

A new toy does not make the problems go away, but it can distract (for a while, at least). Throwing a toy at folks who have real concerns and need an economic development plan is pretty lame. Call it whatever you want to call it.

You seem to want to smack me around about light rail, but I am all for light rail.

I didn't compare NYC to Charlotte. But I did want people to think about how folks navigate the city. Yes, they have subways . . . not streetcars.

Last edited by brokensky; 02-06-2013 at 06:44 PM.. Reason: misspell
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