U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-02-2013, 04:21 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,946,361 times
Reputation: 1272

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
Since when has logic ever been your strong suit? .
Oh please luv, give us a break. Can you make one post on this forum that doesn't involve a personal insult?

It is after all, you, who is trying to justify a project that has been deemed not cost justified, by painting this as a racist/red politician conservative act all while ignoring that some of Charlotte's most liberal people of color politicians have voted ney too. You ask about logic. There is no logic in this.
"but ignoring the demographic and class element is simply being dishonest or too ignorant to realize the facts."

I didn't ignore it. I said that Black liberal politicians also voted against the trolley. they took exactly the same actions that McCrory said he would take and for exactly the same stated reasons. Yet you say nothing about this. You are the one ignoring this because this fact completely disproves the "they are against Black folk" argument that you are trying to make.

---------------------------

Bottom line, this project as been voted down by both Black & White, both Liberal & Conservative (if we absolutely have to label everyone) It was voted down because it makes no financial sense. That is the logical fact of the matter whether you like it or not no matter how much you wish to paint the ones against it as ignorant dishonest racists.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-02-2013, 04:33 AM
 
3,455 posts, read 3,138,788 times
Reputation: 3411
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
Photo of the existing Trolley. As you can see it is a high floor design. The seating inside is wood. The city paid to have 3 of these constructed in 2004. I believe they are presently located at the Lynx maintenance facility for the Blue Line.
But isn't the plan to upgrade the trolley vehicles to a modern streetcar system, similar style to LRT vehicles but are much slower since they will navigate through a more urban core. Although I stand by my previously posted reasoning as to why some folks are hesitant to support the full extension, maybe a long term piecemeal solution for the extension would be more suitable and receptive for the time being. Personally, I like to see spurs of LRT to the airport or other parts of the city priorized versus a streetcar system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2013, 04:49 AM
 
3,455 posts, read 3,138,788 times
Reputation: 3411
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
Oh please luv, give us a break. Can you make one post on this forum that doesn't involve a personal insult?

It is after all, you, who is trying to justify a project that has been deemed not cost justified, by painting this as a racist/red politician conservative act all while ignoring that some of Charlotte's most liberal people of color politicians have voted ney too. You ask about logic. There is no logic in this.
"but ignoring the demographic and class element is simply being dishonest or too ignorant to realize the facts."

I didn't ignore it. I said that Black liberal politicians also voted against the trolley. they took exactly the same actions that McCrory said he would take and for exactly the same stated reasons. Yet you say nothing about this. You are the one ignoring this because this fact completely disproves the "they are against Black folk" argument that you are trying to make.

---------------------------

Bottom line, this project as been voted down by both Black & White, both Liberal & Conservative (if we absolutely have to label everyone) It was voted down because it makes no financial sense. That is the logical fact of the matter whether you like it or not no matter how much you wish to paint the ones against it as ignorant dishonest racists.
Can you make a post on this forum that makes ANY sense? Other than demonstrating a slew of bias that supports every right wing slant on any issue. Race and class are always a factor, whether you wish to acknowledge it or not...whether it be a black or white person making a decision.

But please enlighten me on the new governor strong arming his old community then supporting a raise for his BFFS....TAXPAYER MONEY! What a hypocrit, that's my ire with the situation....fair and balanced? I think not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2013, 07:18 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,946,361 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
But isn't the plan to upgrade the trolley vehicles to a modern streetcar system, similar style to LRT vehicles but are much slower since they will navigate through a more urban core.
That was the now canceled CATS/MTC plan that would have been supported by the transit tax. I believe that Foxx's/council plan in order to save costs, is to simply roll these 3 vehicles between Presbytarian Hospital and JC Smith. Maybe they are planning to upgrade later.

If this isn't the plan, then the city should have sold these vehicles long ago. I see no reason to hold on to them and they are expensive to maintain with no revenue service. There are several cities (mostly tourist) that would pay good money for these new little used machines for use on their historic trolley lines. They are expensive one-offs to build and the city would no longer have to pay for maintenance.

Unlike CATS/MTC, the city has not released a detailed plan for their version of the trolley. If there is one, like I said above, I would like to see it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2013, 07:39 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 3,946,361 times
Reputation: 1272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
.... Race and class are always a factor, whether you wish to acknowledge it or not...whether it be a black or white person making a decision....
Actually I've said before that I did not vote for McCrory as I consider him a crony capitalist. I did not vote for him for Mayor and I did not vote for him for Governor. So your efforts to paint me as a right wing fanatic have no basis. However I don't let political dogma blind me to the point where I can't applaud him for making a good decision for the taxpayers. It's unfortunate that you can't do the same as demonstrated by your arguments.
" Race and class are always a factor, whether you wish to acknowledge it or not...whether it be a black or white person making a decision."
The world isn't just Black & White. pun intended.

I am a native Southerner who has close (grew up with) relatives in mixed race marriages and one set of my grandparents were 1/2 Native American (Catawba). So you don't need to lecture me on race relations and how they factor into decisions. I know it first hand. There are those of us however who have grown beyond this and know that to get anything done, we have to let go of those excuses and placing blame and move on to get real work done.

I did not bring race into this subject, you did. And if you wish to deny it, I will go back to the post where you started it. The fact remains that several local liberal Black politicians have voted against the trolley, you absolutely refuse to acknowledge it and as a result, it is you who are guilty of the very faults that you wish to place on use who support this decision.

You should let go of your anger. It's going to consume you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2013, 08:44 AM
LLN
 
Location: Upstairs closet
4,977 posts, read 8,725,736 times
Reputation: 6443
The real problem is that the smart people do not gravitate to government.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2013, 11:33 AM
 
5,150 posts, read 6,645,512 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad View Post
I believe the current plan is to use the 3 new historic trolley's that Charlotte purchased in 2004. They do not have 2X the capacity of a city bus.
That appears to be the case but all the pretty photos on the easy to find documents show modern streetcars.

I had to dig to find this:

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/g...ject-Final.pdf
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2013, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Pixley
3,521 posts, read 2,235,893 times
Reputation: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaxnc View Post
LOL!


Streetcar it is.

Given the millions of $$$$ this is costing for a very short route, wouldn't it be far more cost effective to run some extra buses along the same route?
Since CATS alaread has buses, what's a couple of cans of paint and some signs going to cost to make some bus lanes? Bonus, cars can use the lanes in non-peak hours
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2013, 11:46 AM
 
5,150 posts, read 6,645,512 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Jedd View Post
Since CATS alaread has buses, what's a couple of cans of paint and some signs going to cost to make some bus lanes? Bonus, cars can use the lanes in non-peak hours
Trade street is already a high tow zone for people that accidentally park between 4pm and 6pm. Both sides of the street are practically jammed due to visits to the jail which is about the only thing one can do on that stretch.

Where else would the occupants of the car go? The Burger King in the transit center is an interesting place to people watch but you can't park there any way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2013, 11:51 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,900 posts, read 27,179,065 times
Reputation: 8966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
Since when has logic ever been your strong suit? Did I not know use the terms race and class? It's a pet project with benefits, so are tons of projects completed for gated community areas (high rent districts) that eat up swells of tax payer money. Any attempt to infer that higher-income communities don't have greater influence over decisions impacting transportation infrastructure, power line right of ways, waste landfill locations, etc is ridiculous.

I never claimed Pat McCrory wants to kill the trolley solely because the extension will serve a predominant black neighborhood area, but ignoring the demographic and class element is simply being dishonest or too ignorant to realize the facts. If Pat McCrory is a "fiscal" conservative, then demonstrate a uniform approach...first thing he does is hit the taxpayer by hiking salaries for his state funded BFFs. You can't practice selective fiscal conservatism and then strong arm a community about being fiscally disciplined. Pat is a clown, continuing the cirque du soleil in Raleigh.
Actually, I think that it's all about class & the racial part is incidental, in this case. Go back to the Gaston proposal. Gaston had paid for the study, so that was a freebee to CATS. CATS simply did not want to provide that type of service to that side of town & make it easier for "those people" to get in & out. They are already providing bus service & commuter van pools west of Charlotte. Much or all of that could have been eliminated.

Light rail should be extended to East & West Charlotte. Rapid transit is superior to trolley/streetcar service. That should be on the back-burner to be used as in-fill, if at all.

I agree with you that the minute that McCrory gave raises to his cronies he tainted every financial cut or denial that he makes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:07 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top