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Definitely do not consider Washington or Baltimore to be southern. There is pretty much nothing southern about them.
Well since the OP is using metro numbers and not municipal population #'s to justify his ranking of cities then Washington DC includes large portions of Virginia which is definitely considered Southern. Richmond was the capital of the Confederacy.
However I'll note that in reality we are talking about suburban NVa & the Maryland suburbs, then IMO, there really isn't any difference between the littany of strip malls, cul de sac neighborhoods, big box retail, and people's attitudes vs the same areas in any of the other cities listed.
This only really highlights the premise of the OP in the first place. There are not definitions and without that, then it's pretty pointless.
I should not have used the word "correction". My apologies. I'm glad you brought up the point that the Mason Dixon line wasn't about slavery. In fact, it wasn't even much to do with the South that people are referring to at all. It was a British thing.
I am wondering where Charlotte posters place their city in the south.
I would say the top 5 spots in no order go to...
1) Dallas - 7,095,411
2) Miami - 6,375,434
3) Houston - 6,371,677
4) Atlanta - 6,092,295
5) Washington DC MSA - 5,860,342
I believe everyone or the majority would agree those five are above Charlotte. Now, this is where it gets into city wars. All of these cities IMO are contenders fighting it out for the five remaining spots.
Orlando - 2,920,603
Tampa - 2,842,878
Baltimore MSA - 2,753,149
Charlotte - 2,454,619
San Antonio - 2,234,003
Raleigh - 1,998,808
Nashville - 1,845,235
Austin - 1,834,303
Virginia Beach - 1,803,080
Greensboro - 1,611,243
Jacksonville - 1,502,515
New Orleans - 1,452,502
Please base your rankings on economy, food, crime, weather, entertainment, job prospects and livability in general.
Most of us are smart enough to simply buy an almanac and get the facts. It doesn't matter where one "places" their city. Facts are facts. There are so many of these silly postings with the intention of causing arguments. Placement doesn't mean that one city is better than another. Seriously, who would move from here to New Orleans or Orlando. Well, maybe Orlando when I reach my 100th birthday.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad
I should not have used the word "correction". My apologies. I'm glad you brought up the point that the Mason Dixon line wasn't about slavery. In fact, it wasn't even much to do with the South that people are referring to at all. It was a British thing.
The Mason Dixon line was drawn because the king gave the Calverts & the Penns overlapping grants. This resulted in border wars & eventually a compromise was struck & Mr. Mason & Mr. Dixon were sent over to mark the border. They did mark the Delaware border because Delaware was part of PA, then called "the lower counties". The Maryland - PA border was used to separate free & slave states, as was the Ohio River.
New Jersey argued that part of the state was below the Mason Dixon line so they should be allowed to keep their slaves. They were told no, but on the 1860 census there were still a handful of slaves, as they freed the slaves by manumission.
On the run up to the Civil War, the NJ legislature debated secession but the federal government sent federal troops to MD & Delaware requested & got federal troops.
That said, anyone who thinks that Philadelphia is northern & Baltimore & Washington are southern is delusional. All 3 are MidAtlantic, as is Richmond. Prior to the Civil war, the wealthy in Richmond sent their kids away to school. They did not send them to Charleston. They sent their kids to Philadelphia.
The Mason Dixon line was drawn because the king gave the Calverts & the Penns overlapping grants. This resulted in border wars & eventually a compromise was struck & Mr. Mason & Mr. Dixon were sent over to mark the border. They did mark the Delaware border because Delaware was part of PA, then called "the lower counties". The Maryland - PA border was used to separate free & slave states, as was the Ohio River.
New Jersey argued that part of the state was below the Mason Dixon line so they should be allowed to keep their slaves. They were told no, but on the 1860 census there were still a handful of slaves, as they freed the slaves by manumission.
On the run up to the Civil War, the NJ legislature debated secession but the federal government sent federal troops to MD & Delaware requested & got federal troops.
That said, anyone who thinks that Philadelphia is northern & Baltimore & Washington are southern is delusional. All 3 are MidAtlantic, as is Richmond. Prior to the Civil war, the wealthy in Richmond sent their kids away to school. They did not send them to Charleston. They sent their kids to Philadelphia.
Every time I drive south on through Maryland, I pass the marker that says "Mason/Dixon line." Part of Maryland was southern and many people from Maryland were fighters for the south. John Wilkes Booth, from Maryland. I believe he prefered it that way.
You are absolutely incorrect about the wealthy in richmond sending their children to Philadelphia. I don't know where you got your information, but I don't think that many "kids" were sent anywhere. When it was time for university, they sent their children to VMI, William and Mary, George Washington University, Citadel, Duke (a Quaker and Methodist Univ.), University of N.C., Davidson, and other southern universities. Same with children. Southerners wanted their children to retain their southern graciousness and culture at that time. It was more likely that their children would go to Charleston or Richmond than Philadelphia. In reality, the north and south were at each other's throats since the establishment of the Continental Congress and disputes over Virginia's vastness and wealth.
Geographically, Virginia is a mid-Atlantic state. But, people don't consider themselves as mid-Atlanticians, they consider themselves as southerners. Washington is actually on the border and is surrounded by Arlington and other Virginia cities and towns as well as the extreme eastern part of West Virginia that actually qualifies it as much a southern metro as a northern metro with Maryland as part of it. But, as a southerner, I give you Washington as a gift but you must take the politicians with you.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar Sigurdsson
Every time I drive south on through Maryland, I pass the marker that says "Mason/Dixon line." Part of Maryland was southern and many people from Maryland were fighters for the south. John Wilkes Booth, from Maryland. I believe he prefered it that way.
You are absolutely incorrect about the wealthy in richmond sending their children to Philadelphia. I don't know where you got your information, but I don't think that many "kids" were sent anywhere. When it was time for university, they sent their children to VMI, William and Mary, George Washington University, Citadel, Duke (a Quaker and Methodist Univ.), University of N.C., Davidson, and other southern universities. Same with children. Southerners wanted their children to retain their southern graciousness and culture at that time. It was more likely that their children would go to Charleston or Richmond than Philadelphia. In reality, the north and south were at each other's throats since the establishment of the Continental Congress and disputes over Virginia's vastness and wealth.
Geographically, Virginia is a mid-Atlantic state. But, people don't consider themselves as mid-Atlanticians, they consider themselves as southerners. Washington is actually on the border and is surrounded by Arlington and other Virginia cities and towns as well as the extreme eastern part of West Virginia that actually qualifies it as much a southern metro as a northern metro with Maryland as part of it. But, as a southerner, I give you Washington as a gift but you must take the politicians with you.
I said that before the Civil War the wealthy of Richmond sent their kids & I am referring to children, to Philadelphia for their education because I have read references to this repeatedly, in doing Civil War research. Your comment is rude & you obviously did not read what I wrote correctly or you would not have said that they would send their children to Richmond..
Some of the states listed as Midwest are not even in the vicinity culturally defined as Midwest.
You are right. People consider Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota and neighboring states as the mid west. It can't be when they are located on the eastern half of the country, ie. east of the Mississippi River. I believe that label is a bit outdated. I believe we are on the same page?
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