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Old 07-21-2013, 04:23 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
279 posts, read 360,106 times
Reputation: 160

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post

Most rational people would indeed say that the verdict sparked a national outcry and the rallies/protests have spread far beyond Florida to become national in scope.

Good.
There is no "national outcry". Not irrational to point out there were protests in only 13.7% of the cities over 50,000 in the USA. (when presented as a metric) Here in CLT, there were a 100 or so protesting in a county of close to a million and there were NO protests in the surrounding 9 counties as far as I know.

Widespread Protests - NO, Rational Thinking - YES.

Last edited by Barфsa; 07-21-2013 at 05:19 AM..

 
Old 07-21-2013, 06:15 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 7,012,974 times
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A terribly sad situation. What a shame, the whole thing.

But if TM hadn't felt compelled to violence he would still be alive.

And if GZ wasn't emboldened by law, TM would still be alive today
 
Old 07-21-2013, 06:31 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,179,255 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Native_Son View Post
A terribly sad situation. What a shame, the whole thing.

But if TM hadn't felt compelled to violence he would still be alive.

And if GZ wasn't emboldened by law, TM would still be alive today
Close to how I see the court case.

I don't know that GZ was "emboldened by law," b/c Stand Your Ground had nothing to do with this, and I am assuming that is what you are referring to.

If you believe witnesses that TM was on top of GZ beating his head on the cement, then what occurred was self-defense, which has nada to do with "stand your ground."

Eric Holder has entered the strawman argument of "stand your ground" as a tactic to keep discussion going and to cover that he doesn't have grounds for a federal civil rights case.
 
Old 07-21-2013, 06:34 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,179,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barфsa View Post
There is no "national outcry". Not irrational to point out there were protests in only 13.7% of the cities over 50,000 in the USA. (when presented as a metric) Here in CLT, there were a 100 or so protesting in a county of close to a million and there were NO protests in the surrounding 9 counties as far as I know.

Widespread Protests - NO, Rational Thinking - YES.
I will have to disagree, Bar.

When the President of the United States chooses to insert himself into the discussion, and the AG chooses to gin up the rhetoric, and the NAACP is encouraging protests . . . I believe it is, indeed, a national outcry, at least by part of society.
 
Old 07-21-2013, 06:38 AM
 
820 posts, read 1,536,324 times
Reputation: 617
Regardless of where one stands regarding the Zimmerman trial, people need to view this interview with Charles Barkley and reflect - really reflect - on what he says.
Charles Barkley... the Voice of Reason on the Zimmerman Case?!? | Independent Journal Review
 
Old 07-21-2013, 06:44 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,179,255 times
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As for the crowds, protests and phrase "no justice, no peace" being used . . . I feel rhetoric in this case has been divisive and disturbing.

There was justice in this case. You can't prosecute unless you have the grounds for prosecution.

I find the phrase as threatening, i.e., we dont' get what we consider justice, then the rest of society doesn't get peace - let's go riot and smash up stuff.

Now, I can totally understand why anyone would be scratching their heads about GZ serving no time for killing TM. However, that is the law. Nevertheless, TM is dead. For those who feel it isn't "fair" that TM is dead and no one "paid a price" for his death, I get that and it has been an exercise in jurisprudence for me to research the law and understand why GZ is not serving time. But to call the trial and verdict "no justice" is incorrect. Unfair? That could be argued, yes. But no justice implies that something was "rigged" or the law was not applied correctly, etc. And that did not happen.

I think that a discussion on "profiling" is worthwhile but I don't think it opens minds and hearts to be assaultive and accusatory to the white people in this country to put it on the basis of - "there is no justice when white people are involved" and "only our black young men are profiled" - as both statements are untrue and divisive.
 
Old 07-21-2013, 06:54 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 7,012,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I don't know that GZ was "emboldened by law," b/c Stand Your Ground had nothing to do with this, and I am assuming that is what you are referring to.
So you don't think GZ knew the "stand your ground" laws (and conceal/carry) well and was "braver" for them? The point is not whether or not he used it in his defense, the fact that those laws were in place (IMO) gave GZ the general confidence to do his "job" with extra gusto.

Conceal and carry permit holders know this feeling well. It helps people get gas or stop at an ATM late at night. It makes an evening walk with your dog more enjoyable. I know the feeling.

I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong. I'm simply saying "I think".

I haven't paid much attention to the protests, do they have a goal in mind? Changing law? A message of non-violence to the AA community?
 
Old 07-21-2013, 07:00 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 7,012,974 times
Reputation: 4402
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulosfm View Post
Regardless of where one stands regarding the Zimmerman trial, people need to view this interview with Charles Barkley and reflect - really reflect - on what he says.
Charles Barkley... the Voice of Reason on the Zimmerman Case?!? | Independent Journal Review
Quite insightful. I very much agree with his sentiments.
 
Old 07-21-2013, 07:29 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,179,255 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Native_Son View Post
So you don't think GZ knew the "stand your ground" laws (and conceal/carry) well and was "braver" for them? The point is not whether or not he used it in his defense, the fact that those laws were in place (IMO) gave GZ the general confidence to do his "job" with extra gusto.

Conceal and carry permit holders know this feeling well. It helps people get gas or stop at an ATM late at night. It makes an evening walk with your dog more enjoyable. I know the feeling.

I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong. I'm simply saying "I think".

I haven't paid much attention to the protests, do they have a goal in mind? Changing law? A message of non-violence to the AA community?
I totally understand what you are saying and I have been batting these thoughts back and forth in my mind for months, not just since the verdict.

I do know that concealed carry permits can give one a sense of at least being prepared. I would not say it makes me feel more confident . . . b/c the facts are - if someone pulls a gun on me b/f I have mine drawn, it's all over and I am the loser. That's why I do not put myself in "iffy" situations after dark. I just don't do things that would make me feel ill at ease. I don't go places that might be the setting for a mugging or assault. In other words, I don't do things that could put me in a victim situation. I am into "avoidance," lol.

As far as the protests . . . it appears to me that leaders have one agenda in mind, but the protestors themselves are less agenda-oriented. Some have been vocal that they are angry b/c they felt GZ should be in prison for killing another human being. I think the agenda is -- gun control and getting rid of "stand your ground" for some, and folks like Holder have clearly stated that this is what is on his mind.

I have no clue what is on the President's mind other than stirring up racial animosity. I am astounded at his words. He sent a mixed message: white people profile and target black young men but don't get rowdy protesting it. Let's discuss this need of the white community to act in racially charged ways to black folks. Shame on racist white people! Only black men are victimized in this way.

What got me about the President's message is that I had the same discussion with my WHITE SON that all the black leaders are talking about when he turned 14 or so. Keep your head down, do not get surly or argumentative if stopped and questioned by law enforcement. If you are stopped for suspicion of something such as shoplifting, be cooperative, ask to have your parents present, ask for legal representation, whatever. But don't argue, don't act disrespectful. And when he started driving, he did indeed get stopped "for no reason" b/c he was driving an expensive vehicle. He also was subjected to what I consider an illegal search at a DUI stop, when the kid has never used drugs, and has never been charged with anything in his entire life. My friends all had the same discussion with their teenaged sons (black and white and asian, as well). And years b/f all this stuff started with "hoodies" - we told our kids that it seems everytime we see a video from a convenience store robbery, the perp has on a hoodie. We said - you are walking around after dark and wearing a hoodie - people are going to think you are trying to hide your identity, they will assume you are a thug, SO DO NOT DO IT.

Now, folks can believe this or not. But my friends and my family know what we have discussed and what we have gone through with profiling with our sons. We know the discussions we have had with them. So when the President and other black leaders suggest that only black young men are profiled, targeted, etc . . . we are insulted and incredulous.

The implication is that white people don't face these problems. White young men never get profiled. And that is just a blatant lie. So the rhetoric has been very divisive and to many of us white people out here . . . seems calculated to "shame" white people, when we have been dealing with the same exact types of situations. It is all coded language for "white privilege" and "racism" and meant to perpetuate the mindset of victimization in the black community.

If we need a national discussion about "profiling" in this country, then it shouldn't be this "us against them" sort of thing . . . and it shouldn't be on the basis of "only black young men are profiled" - and that typically, they are profiled by racist white people.
 
Old 07-21-2013, 08:08 AM
 
Location: What use to be the South
441 posts, read 1,288,880 times
Reputation: 485
I can't grasp why anyone would be against the " Stand Your Ground" law. The only people this would, should truly affect, would be people with ill intent.
If certain people, no matter ethnicity/race have issue with being profiled, then why accept or emulate the dress or behavior of a criminal element. I think instead of putting so much effort and passion in protesting and pointing fingers at what has happened, we need to spend the same time and energy in raising our youth to be a more respectful productive part of society.
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