U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-08-2013, 02:02 PM
 
3,185 posts, read 5,759,188 times
Reputation: 1818

Advertisements

If the people riding it where going to be the people paying for it a street car would be great...The trolley going to the south end proves my point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-08-2013, 05:06 PM
 
3,451 posts, read 3,132,906 times
Reputation: 3400
Quote:
Originally Posted by crestliner View Post
If the people riding it where going to be the people paying for it a street car would be great...The trolley going to the south end proves my point.
You have no point, no supporting data and continue to display an admitted ignorance about the streetcar project.

Reference..I dont know too much about all that street car stuff. Yet rattle off nonsense and hearsay about the project.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2013, 05:17 PM
 
3,451 posts, read 3,132,906 times
Reputation: 3400
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Not putting down mass transit, at all! And certainly I am not maligning the interstate system. Paying for upkeep on that system, regardless of its importance, is, nevertheless, funded by borrowed dollars. We can't keep pretending this country is not woefully in debt! We have to concentrate on what is necessary at this point, rather than what we want.

Just questioning the financing aspect of it all (all federal spending). . . and priorities . . . when we are so heavily indebted, especially to China.

And I agree with you 100% that wars are big business. The caveat to that, however, is that the manufacturing end of making war (and war material) no longer leads to jobs as it did in decades past. Our manufacturing has moved out of this country, for the most part. Do we even have a complex (ONE?) that can actually make a battleship from the bottom up?

It really would make more sense for local governments to fund their own projects and stop relying on the federal government, whatever the reasons for federal debt. And if any particular local government cannot AFFORD a specific project, then they simply don't move forward til they can work out the financing.
So financing a streetcar project that serves mostly working class nieghborhoods is a concern for federal debt? If the powers that be decide to address the federal debt, they'd start with downsizing the behemoth Department of Defense...that it ain't gonna happen, too much money and too many palms being greased. What about all the useless billions of dollars for academic studies to validate why a bee mysteriously overcomes the physics of flight?

It not so much the idea of the streetcar but the area the extension will serve...you know, "those" people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2013, 05:23 PM
 
1,111 posts, read 1,686,316 times
Reputation: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
So financing a streetcar project that serves mostly working class nieghborhoods is a concern for federal debt? If the powers that be decide to address the federal debt, they'd start with downsizing the behemoth Department of Defense...that it ain't gonna happen, too much money and too many palms being greased. What about all the useless billions of dollars for academic studies to validate why a bee mysteriously overcomes the physics of flight?

It not so much the idea of the streetcar but the area the extension will serve...you know, "those" people.
Like that last statement BA, LMAO!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2013, 10:17 PM
 
29,696 posts, read 27,133,604 times
Reputation: 18232
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
It really would make more sense for local governments to fund their own projects and stop relying on the federal government, whatever the reasons for federal debt. And if any particular local government cannot AFFORD a specific project, then they simply don't move forward til they can work out the financing.
I have to disagree with this for one major reason: metropolitan areas are the engines of economic growth in this country, with 84% of the population and the majority of economic output in 47 of 50 states. If we donít invest there, we risk our economic future as a nation.

I also feel that totally excluding federal involvement in transportation initiatives could lead to greater transportation inequities in localities where the lion's share of funding goes towards roads. I'd imagine this would be a complete nightmare here in the Atlanta area where there's no dedicated state funding for MARTA (due to the backwardness of state leaders, but that's another subject) and federal grants are relied on to help cover capital projects, maintenance, etc.

Here's a good article that lays out the pros and cons of such a change: The End of Federal Transportation Funding as We Know It - Eric Jaffe - The Atlantic Cities
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2013, 02:13 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,009,663 times
Reputation: 22370
Great ideas, folks.

Just figure out how to pay for it is all I ask. I am all for expansion and mass transit implementation.

And as far as that snarky comment about "those people," good grief. I use mass transit in other cities, here in the USA and in Europe as well. I don't understand why you would imply that anyone questioning how we are to PAY for these improvements is essentially a snob and unconcerned about how the majority of folks in lower income areas of the city might get to work.

I would add - we DO have buses, so it isn't as though people have no way to get from one place to another.

The subject always changes and the nasty personal asides get started when anyone brings up HOW TO PAY for all the things on the wish list.

Maybe no one else on this forum is a homeowner. I have lived in Charlotte for over a decade now, and my taxes have just about doubled during that time. Maybe that seems nothing to you, but it means something to me. The taxes I pay every month, on my home, translate into a nice car payment or a loan on a modest condo. Hubby pointed this out to me just this past weekend.

So yes, I think I have the right to question how things are being paid for . . . and what the priorities are, just as any taxpaying citizen should have the right to do -- and without the snarky asides.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2013, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Huntersville
409 posts, read 988,175 times
Reputation: 372
I've followed the streetcar situation with some interest. So far, I've yet to see anyone make a compelling case why a streetcar is a good investment when weighed against other alternatives, like bus service.

So what are those benefits as opposed to a bus line? The only thing I've seen is that for some reason, people have an aversion to riding buses that will somehow be overcome by a streetcar, and that somehow the streetcar will spark investment in the area.

I wonder why expanded bus service (routes and frequency, on the targeted line and others), investment in a PR program to overcome the "stigma" of bus riding, and some neighborhood improvement projects or other incentives would not give the same results for a lot less money?

Perhaps not, but I've yet to see someone argue effectively otherwise.

I think the main reason could be that there are no federal dollars available for these other programs. It sounds like the arguments made for putting in tolls and spend a pile of money to add some lanes to I-77. There is a cheaper way to do it, but since no other money is available for that approach we "have" to do it the more expensive way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2013, 08:18 PM
 
3,451 posts, read 3,132,906 times
Reputation: 3400
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Great ideas, folks.

Just figure out how to pay for it is all I ask. I am all for expansion and mass transit implementation.

And as far as that snarky comment about "those people," good grief. I use mass transit in other cities, here in the USA and in Europe as well. I don't understand why you would imply that anyone questioning how we are to PAY for these improvements is essentially a snob and unconcerned about how the majority of folks in lower income areas of the city might get to work.

I would add - we DO have buses, so it isn't as though people have no way to get from one place to another.

The subject always changes and the nasty personal asides get started when anyone brings up HOW TO PAY for all the things on the wish list.

Maybe no one else on this forum is a homeowner. I have lived in Charlotte for over a decade now, and my taxes have just about doubled during that time. Maybe that seems nothing to you, but it means something to me. The taxes I pay every month, on my home, translate into a nice car payment or a loan on a modest condo. Hubby pointed this out to me just this past weekend.

So yes, I think I have the right to question how things are being paid for . . . and what the priorities are, just as any taxpaying citizen should have the right to do -- and without the snarky asides.
It is about "those" people because of where the proposed street extension car goes. There's always a contingent of anti-mass transit folk but the communities being served in this case amplified that tone for obvious reasons.

So, the light rail gets a bulk of federal funding yet the streetcar must seek a different set of standards beyond projected ridership and potential economic development?

Aren't tax value assessments based on the value of your home as well (re-assessed every 4-8 years)? I think it's a little misleading to imply that the amount of property tax paid is solely driven by increases in the tax rate. Although the housing bubble hit, I think people who've maintained residence for 10+ years should have seen a nice bump in home value.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2013, 10:43 PM
 
29,696 posts, read 27,133,604 times
Reputation: 18232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfort Food View Post
So what are those benefits as opposed to a bus line? The only thing I've seen is that for some reason, people have an aversion to riding buses that will somehow be overcome by a streetcar, and that somehow the streetcar will spark investment in the area.

I wonder why expanded bus service (routes and frequency, on the targeted line and others), investment in a PR program to overcome the "stigma" of bus riding, and some neighborhood improvement projects or other incentives would not give the same results for a lot less money?

Perhaps not, but I've yet to see someone argue effectively otherwise.
It's mainly due to the permanency of rail transit vs buses. In some cities, BRT has spurred investment but that's not an appropriate substitute for rail in all cases.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2013, 12:23 AM
 
3,185 posts, read 5,759,188 times
Reputation: 1818
We need street cars to become a world class city. Look what it has done to help other large cities become world class. We need this here
Attached Thumbnails
Streetcar doesn't get federal grant-overcrowding.jpg  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > North Carolina > Charlotte
Similar Threads
View detailed profiles of:
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:05 AM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top