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Old 10-23-2013, 08:08 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,920,434 times
Reputation: 22369

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloante74 View Post
When the local media goes mainstream because your planning to build a house the size of Elvis Presley's there is most certainly an argument.
No, there is a 24/7 news cycle and the wolves are circling for fresh meat, especially if it can be anything that would suggest something negative about Christians.

 
Old 10-23-2013, 08:22 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,920,434 times
Reputation: 22369
Quote:
Originally Posted by coped View Post
Bwahahahaha. Right. Christians are just so persecuted. I always took you for a reasonable person, but you are twisting yourself into logical pretzels here.
I have no idea what you mean by that remark. I am not twisting myself into anything. I have repeatedly stated, I am no apologist for Elevation Church or for its minister.

Christians are often targeted by the media.

What is so sad . . . here on this forum and doubtless in other discussions about this non-issue of a minister buying himself a home -- it's not the media doing the persecuting as much as other Christians doing the persecuting -- as well as the trial by no jury.

That is what is sad to see. Yet another division in a country that is full of divisions and which seems to fuel itself on whatever may be the aspersion du jour.
 
Old 10-23-2013, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Charlotte
74 posts, read 111,974 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
No, there is a 24/7 news cycle and the wolves are circling for fresh meat, especially if it can be anything that would suggest something negative about Christians.
This comes across as a cop out and that's probably not the intention. It just seems to me when issues are brought up for discussion, it devolves into the idea of Christians always being viewed in a negative light or worse, persecuted.
 
Old 10-23-2013, 08:54 PM
 
128 posts, read 186,553 times
Reputation: 188
Interesting thread...

A few thoughts

I've been wondering for awhile when this "shoe would drop" because of how intense people are about him and how much power he seemingly has. He's seems to have that same "rock star" persona/fan base. I think that most of us agree with the ancient adage about "power corrupting" and what curbs power is transparency and a system of checks and balance. It is very easy for a someone with religious authority to start confusing his/her own desires with what God desires. The curb on that is having people who will say no to you around you and folks who will tell you the truth. As noted in the TV stations article about Forest Hill (who came out of the Presbyterian tradition) other churches have realized this can be an issue and have taken precautions. That's one of the reasons why David Chadwick is so well respected in the community and Forest Hill has done well over a long period of time. I think that so few of Elevation's members have a background in the church is perhaps one of the reasons that it isn't criticized - they don't have that long view of the need for churches to have these sorts of policies in place. They aren't just to protect the congregants but also the pastor's from having too big of a temptation.

I think the criticism is also partly because we expect our ministers to authentically "walk the walk, not just talk the talk." In my reading of the bible it is clear that Jesus is very concerned with those who are poor and outcasts. Those who are rich and powerful are among the most criticized people in the bible. All of us who live with material comfort in the U.S. (which if you've traveled to third world countries you know are most of us) know that we are rich whether we live in 16,000 sq feet 1600 sq feet or 600 square feet. So, it's easier to project our uncomfortableness with our abundance onto this minister rather than take a hard look at how we're living. Is this church/minister struggling with these types of questions - we don't know. We get some pat answers about him needing privacy and it being not that big of house. Many of us are uncomfortable with this disconnect and I think that's part of the criticism. In any PR problem of this kind it's usually the stonewalling efforts that cause the biggest problem in the end.

It's inevitable that a church that has grown this fast will experience growing pains. It will be interesting to see how they respond to this first, real public criticism. All churches have cycles and there are many large, heavily mortgaged mega churches out there that ended up in not great financial circumstances. Only time will tell whether they have staying power or if they will end up as this generations PTL.
 
Old 10-23-2013, 09:37 PM
 
128 posts, read 186,553 times
Reputation: 188
I haven't seen this in any article, but if I was their banker I might start feeling kind of twitchy. I wonder how high the overhead is each month at all these different campuses and how much debt they really are in? If this (or just natural church cycles) results in a 10% or 15% or 25% decrease in membership/giving do they have a big enough rainy day fund to carry them for awhile? There was a hint of some sophisticated financing in the tv report, but how extended or leveraged are they. I bet at least a few finance people at the church and and their banker(s) aren't sleeping well tonight if they are at all in a tenuous financial position.
 
Old 10-24-2013, 01:40 AM
 
6,269 posts, read 9,975,835 times
Reputation: 4723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromekitty View Post
All this is, is someone who is anti-church and anti-christianity looking to raise a stink. God bless them!
I doubt it. Stuff like this is par for the course to the average non-religious person; nothing eyebrow-raise-worthy at all.
 
Old 10-24-2013, 05:18 AM
 
1,547 posts, read 2,165,912 times
Reputation: 1400
No difference between him and a professional ball player - stupid people patronize fake Gods all day long. The Pope just expelled the German Bishop for building a $42M residence. The expulsion did not stop the building and someone is going to live in it when its done.
 
Old 10-24-2013, 05:42 AM
 
469 posts, read 744,198 times
Reputation: 303
Here's a new way to look at it - if this pastor doesn't see a problem with it - why doesn't he just own it and say - yeah, I'm building a $1.6 million dollar house. Why does he tell his congregation about this reporter that's asking questions about his house and then add it's really not that great of a house when clearly it is. Own it - don't dodge it - and don't mislead your congregation by saying - not that great of a house. If helicopters are flying over - people are going to see it and see that that's not true. And why put the deed in the name of a blind trust? It looks like you're trying to hide something and why hide it if you think there's nothing wrong with it.
 
Old 10-24-2013, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Indian Trail, NC
921 posts, read 1,850,254 times
Reputation: 373
Pastor Steven has received threats against him and his family. He has a body guard that goes with him everywhere. I would imagine he puts things in other names just like celebrities do, to not have stalkers and sick people going after him.
 
Old 10-24-2013, 06:21 AM
 
7,672 posts, read 9,831,775 times
Reputation: 7945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go To Girl View Post
Here's a new way to look at it - if this pastor doesn't see a problem with it - why doesn't he just own it and say - yeah, I'm building a $1.6 million dollar house. Why does he tell his congregation about this reporter that's asking questions about his house and then add it's really not that great of a house when clearly it is. Own it - don't dodge it - and don't mislead your congregation by saying - not that great of a house. If helicopters are flying over - people are going to see it and see that that's not true. And why put the deed in the name of a blind trust? It looks like you're trying to hide something and why hide it if you think there's nothing wrong with it.
I agree with this. And I listened to some of his sermons online and he talks a lot about his personal life so it isn't a matter of being too personal. It's a shame as I can see why many like him. But his sermons definitely has a ring of untruth now knowing. I've always said if you are upfront about it, I would respect that. Especially in light of so many pastors that get outed for"secrets". If you are choosing to be a pastor, you have to live very publicly and open. Again I don't care about the designer jeans or if it was a 4000 sq foot house. Or even if he drove a really nice car and was upfront about it.

But 16,000 sq ft on 19 acres and being one of the larger homes in all of Charlotte as the observer noted? And according to the budget documents on their own site, outreach was one of the lowest budget amounts. None of this is illegal. So to me it's nothing I will be outraged over. Now that truth is out, it's up to people to keep attending or not. It's one I would not attend.

Last edited by momtothree; 10-24-2013 at 06:34 AM..
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